Martha's model Republican.....
"There should be a pathway to citizenship, not a special pathway and not no pathway, but there has to be a legal lawful way to go through this process that works and right now it doesn't," Chaffetz told ABC 4 Utah.But he's a Mormon....so it's OK........
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78 comments:
RWN, is it proper to call you an asshat? I hope so, as that's exactly what you are.
Bosman, I suggest because of the bigtory shown by right Wing NUT, that he / she not be allowed to post anymore for a while.
Give me a break. Read the entire article and you will see that he is spot on with his comments. There should be a pathway to citizenship, but it's not the bill that was passed by the senate. He makes it clear he does not support the current bill and he believes a series of smaller bills crafted in the house are a better alternative. Simply because you state 'there must be a pathway to citizenship' does not immediately label you as pro-amnesty. It's how you interpret this statement that matters. Even Mitt Romney offered a pathway to citizenship, but he did not offer amnesty as a part of this pathway. In short, this entire post has no legs behind it. Read the final statement attributed to Chaffetz and you will see exactly why this post is inaccurate. In regards to attacking ones religious as one of the talking points in any comment, that is simply wrong.
RW
Where's my hat tip for getting this? lol
Prepare for a barrage of Mormon abuse.
How dare you point out shortcomings of a Mormon.
Joel, that would require RWN to actually READ something, and not spout is obvious religious bigtory.
RW,
You're getting it for the, uh, *anonymous* posters.
Where's the bigotry here? Answer....there isn't any. Case closed. You either support Chaffetz for his policies, or for shared religious beliefs. If you're opposed to amnesty, it can't be both.
I am not anonymous, so go ahead and refute my comments and I'll respond accordingly. As for hat tipping, only a self-arrogant individual fuels his own ego in this manner, but consider the source of the comment.
The perceived bigotry lies in your remarks about her religious beliefs. Your opinion of this individual is your opinion, nobody has an issue with that and can post their opposing opinions, which is what I have done. Eliminate the parting shots about religion and I am comfortable with your post as I have been many times with your past comments here. The comments by the little lapdog referencing religion as well makes it clear the issue was taken as it should have been. It was uncalled for and wrong, plain and simple.
You're reading too much into it. I stand by my post. Period.
He's always sensitive.
Pity he didn't practice his political opinions and *predictions* a little more, and a smidgeon of credibility may come his way.
Remember: 'Romney ran an inspiring campaign' 'other can worry about voter fraud, Romney doesn't need to' {as] 'Romney is at peace' and, concerning A. sauls top facebook new gig, she is apparently a 'good choice', and, in the run up to the election, concerning OB's chances of a 2nd term: 'it's all over for the incumbent' and 'the emperor has no cloths'.
RW
Your swipe at her religious views was yours and yours alone. It was uncalled for. As for the rest of the post I have already stated I have no issue with it.
RM
I stand by my support of our candidate and ignore the positions of so-called conservatives whose actions make it very clear they are anything but conservative. What you choose to ridicule I have no problem expressing, etc. If I had a do-over I would support our candidate again.
RW, I'm not going to play your silly games.
-Martha
If Martha does support Jason Chaffetz, good for her. Check out his score at the Freedom Index:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/freedomindex/
Utah
Sen. Mike Lee - 90%
Sen. Orrin Hatch - 59%
Dist.1: Rob Bishop - 68%
Dist.2: Chris Stewart - 70%
Dist.3: JASON CHAFFETZ - 82%
Dist.4: Jim Matheson - 35%
That's what we like to see. The nice thing about Mormons is that they generally (with some exceptions like Harry Reid) are FOR more freedom. Looks like Jason Chaffetz fits right in.
Those should be higher in UT.
First of all, RW has a right to this opinion without being called a bigot. With regards to Mr. Chaffetz, his plan does not concern me; I have no problem with it per se.
Thanks, OJ. I fully expected some here to miss the point.
Speaking of Mormons in UT, I would have no problem supporting Mike Lee for President.
I agree. Mike Lee is doing a good job here. He should be on the watch list for a potential candidate down the road.
I have to agree with Joel2013 on that point.
"I have to agree with Joel2013 on that point."
Someone has to I suppose.
RW, the problem with your post yesterday is that you are calling me a liar. You didn't believe anything I wrote. So why should I pay any attention to you?
I think for a good discussion to happen around here, we should each assume that we are all telling the truth, and accept a person's word as good until proven otherwise. If not, what good is a discussion?
Plus you read way too much into my comment about Chaffetz!Did I say he was a model Republican? No. I don't know hardly anything about him, other than I see him on FOX working hard to shed light on Benghazi. That's it. He was just a nice example/contrast to Cruz's grandstanding. Chaffetz doesn't seem to have larger ambitions. So that is why I said he's not going to Iowa. lol.
Your post today is nothing more than to ridicule me and imply things about me that are simply not true. I don't think that's a good reason to post something.
I'm glad people have come to Chaffetz defense with more information. Looks like he is a model Republican after all. Good for him.
-Martha
-Martha
Rightwing won't support Lee because of Lee's choice of place to worship. It's an old song from Rightwing. If he could leave religion out of it... I have no issue with him. But I agree that once he put a particular religion into it, then that crossed the line.
Ellie.
Martha, I am represented by Bishop. But Jason is doing a great job down south, as are the other's who represent Utah.
Ellie
Wrong. I would absolutely support Lee over Perry, Bachmann, Rubio, Bush, Santorum, Gingrich, or most of the other wannabes. It's not about religion for me. It's ideology and consistency.
". It's ideology and consistency. "
Which means, by definition, you look to Marco Rubio.
Rightwing.. I actually don't believe you about supporting Lee. You'd find something about him you would not like and then blame it on his religion.
Ellie.
Ellie, that's fine. You don't have any credibility with me anyway, so I don't care what you think. You don't even know my religious views anyway, so you have no basis to form an opinion on this.
RomneyMan, I used to like Rubio pre-amnesty.
Martha, as soon as you admit you were unfair to Newark Hawk, when you all bu accused him of bigotry, 'll retract the wording and headline of my post.
Mormon's always play the bigotry card, They can't help it. They must get up in the morning, look outside, see it's cloudy and say 'oh, it's cloudy because the sky's a bigot'. They then make a cup of coffee. The coffee is only 99% of how they like it to taste. Well, the coffee, naturally, must be a bigot.
I've already been through the bigot baiting wringer, so it doesn't bother me.
Then Romneyman, stop playing it yourselves.
Sorry, tht was me at 7:01. And since Rightie played the bigot card, I'll play the palin card. Remember this? Ohhhh yea....
http://www.cafeconlecherepublicans.com/sarah-palin-supported-a-path-to-citizenship-before-opposing-it/
So, when did she change her mind? Was it when fox paid her the big bucks? Or when she decided that she wanted to be 'relevant'?
Representatives Chaffetz, Gowdy and Gutierrez look VERY, VERY, VERY CHUMMY in the photo RW posted up top.
Gutierrez(D-Ill) is LEADING THE CHARGE in Congress for a path to citizenship, welfare and voting rights for 30 MILLION - not 11 million - illegal aliens.
According to the polls, a whopping NINETY PERCENT of these illegal aliens will become card carrying members of the Democratic Party after receiving their citizenship papers, courtesy of the three stooges pictured above.
And that, for all intents and purposes, will KILL the Republican Party, KILL the conservative movement, and KILL America as we know it.
Unless, of course, We The People rise up, take a stand and KILL THE BILL!!!
..........
PS - RW, I greatly appreciate you repeatedly defending me against Martha's vitriolic, factually challenged, over-the-top attacks. My day job and other responsibilities have kept me quite busy of late, so I haven't been able to stand guard here to defend myself. Thanks again, RW, I owe you one.
No problem, NH.
Newark, Steve Deace is the one with the vitriolic, factually-challenged over-the-top attacks on anyone who doesn't pass his 'Christian' test. You linked to him the other day. Is he your kind of guy or not?
-Martha
" attacks on anyone who doesn't pass his 'Christian' test. "
Playing the bigot card...again.
And, how about, as it's the weekend and all, no one's allowed to play the bigot card?
Let's all have a few days off from playing the bigot card game.
RomneyMan, apparently you were asleep for the past 6 years. There are many of these losers in the GOP who think it is their sacred duty to disqualify anyone who doesn't meet their 'Christian' test. It is not playing the bigot card to point this out. They are the bigots, and merely saying so does not make one a bigot.
Try to keep up.
-Martha
Who is "they?"
When you don't name names, one is left wondering if these bigots exist in significant numbers.
RW, you want me to dig up the old names? I can, but I'd rather not have to. Deace was just one, but he was particularly nasty and over-the-top.
A lot of the people who were involved with Perry's national day of prayer were in the category, and also the people who signed a letter to John McCain threatening him not to choose Romney for VP.
And then a few more who tried to derail Romney's nomination by having all those meetings trying to find ABR.
People like that. They are usually referred to 'religious right leaders'. But not all of them are terrible. Just quite a few.
-Martha
Martha -
You're sadly mistaken if you think Romney's religious beliefs were the primary reason that Deace opposed his candidacy.
Romney's religion was certainly a factor for Deace, but that's his prerogative, as it is for any voter.
There are TENS OF MILLIONS of voters who won't support an atheist for president, regardless of that atheist's political views.
Does that make those voters bigots?
I don't think so.
Even on his worst day, Deace is NOT a bigot.
If he was, the POLITICALLY CORRECT State Run Media would boot him off the public airwaves in a nanosecond, rather than allow him to continue hosting a nationally syndicated radio talk show(the best of the bunch, IMHO).
I've never listened to Deace, so I know nothing about him. I don't think his show even airs here.
FWIW, he has a new Romney piece up at Townhall today. To avoid the wrath of Martha, I won't link it. :)
Newark, Ha ha ha ha!
Well, thank you for defending Deace. Now there is no mistaking your position. So I was right to call you a SteveDeaceSympathizer.
And no, I'm not mistaken about Deace at all. If Romney had been the Deace brand of 'Christian' he would have fully accepted him. No doubt in my mind. But, I see you may have a hard time seeing people for who they really are. Deace doesn't make it that hard though! Ha ha. He is VITRIOLIC and HATEFUL about Mormonism and Romney. It's not rocket science.
BTW, as far as atheism, yes it does make them bigots. I certainly want a religious person to be my president. I think it is to be desired for obvious reasons. But I would have no problem with an atheist if they displayed the life, values, experience and political ideals, leadership that I think are important.
Romney had all of that is SPADES. Yet, many of the 'religious right' leaders had FITS at the thought of a Mormon as president. And yes, that makes them BIGOTS.
-Martha
RW, thank you.
I stopped paying attention to Deace even before the 2012 election. I only knew about him from TH in 2007-8. I had enough of him to last a lifetime! I don't even know what he had to say about Romney in 2012, and I don't care. The man is vile with a capital V. And he's about as useless as anyone I can think of.
-Martha
RW -
For Minnesotans - that's where you live, if I recall correctly - Deace's radio show(Monday-Friday, 9pm-Midnight(EST)) is on WWTC-AM 1280 in the Minneapolis-St. Paul market and KXBR-FM 91.3 in the Duluth-International Falls market.
http://stevedeace.com/radio-affiliates/
PS - Sorry, Martha, if I just ruined your day.
For those of you who reside in the state of Oregon, Deace is on KUIK-AM 1360 in the Portland market.
Enjoy!!!
(LOL)
That explains it. I rarely listen to the radio that late at night.
Here's the "Mormon-hating bigot" Steve Deace conducting a very friendly, approving and supportive interview of Utah Senator Mike Lee, who last time I checked, is a Mormon.
http://stevedeace.com/headline/deace-show-podcast-07-02-13/
So much for Martha's off-the-wall theory that Deace is a "Mormon-hating bigot".
Martha, I would also add that the letter sent to McCain threatening to oppose the ticket with Romney on it had his history on social issues.
*had to do with his history on social issues.
iPhone mistakes
This Deace column makes it perfectly clear that he opposed Romney because of his politics, NOT because of his religion -
http://townhall.com/columnists/stevedeace/2012/04/28/mittstake/page/full
Particularly noteworthy is this sentence(5th paragraph from the bottom) -
"All this to say that the same MORAL conscience that won't allow me to vote for Romney is the same MORAL conscience that won't allow me to condemn my fellow PATRIOTS who do, given the cliff the nation finds itself dangling from."
But even this probably won't convince Martha that Deace is not a bigot, because some people just love to play the victim by playing the race or religion card every chance they get.
@ Joel2013(up top)
"Pathway to citizenship" is CODE FOR AMNESTY.
All political junkies know that, except you, apparently.
No politician, especially a Republican politician like Chaffetz, will ever admit that he/she supports "amnesty" because he/she knows that 80% of voters, and nearly 100% of Republican voters, oppose it.
So they use the term "path to citizenship" instead. Because it FOOLS the low information crowd.
Capiche?
Newark, Ah. Isn't that so sweet that he likes Mike Lee! :-)
He can PROVE he's not anti-Mormon. Sure! lol
I only know the hateful and vile things I read way back in 07-08. He can't take them back, they happened. If he has learned since then, good for him! But at the time, the things he wrote were the WORST I read among ALL of the anti-Mormon hatred connected to Romney and the 2008 campaign. And that is saying something.
-Martha
Sure, guys. Deace opposed Romney because of his politics! Oh yeah. And if you believe that, you haven't really read what he wrote back then.
-Martha
I decided to link today's Deace article afterall. There's nothing about religion, and Mitt wasnt singled out. He went after Dole and McCain too.
http://m.townhall.com/columnists/stevedeace/2013/08/24/mitt-rasputin-n1670214
Seeing that he likes Mike Lee, perhaps it's just liberal Mormons he isn't crazy about.
I'll have to see what he said in 2007-2008 before passing judgement.
Listening to the podcast. Deace, at one point, called Lee "brother." Very warm and friendly. Deace probably would have given him a hug if they were in the same room.
Martha keeps WAILING about the awful, horrible, terrible things Deace wrote back in 2007-08, but strangely enough, hasn't provided a single quote or link to back up her accusations.
But we all know that's par for the course with Martha. Same old same old.
Deace just hates RINOs. And so do I. It's really no more complicated than that.
Well, you guys need to do more homework if you think it's all about Deace hating RINOS.
BTW RW, Romney is not a liberal Mormon, and you know that.
-Martha
Ha ha ha ha ha! So, I went digging and what do you know, Deace endorsed good ol Newt in 2012. And you said he hates RINOS? Ha ha ha ha ha.
So yeah sure his disdain for Romney was not because he is a Mormon. Sure. Please, guys give me a break.
BTW, if you want to see the real Deace, you have to go back to 07-08. The few things I quickly found show that even as late as 2011-12, Deace regularly invited anti-Mormons on his show to help him convince people not to vote for Satan, (oops) I mean the Mormon. But if you really want the good stuff, you have to go way back.
I dare you to find the truth and come here and tell me I'm wrong. But then, you guys don't want to know the truth for whatever reason. Deace is widely acknowledge to be an anti-Mormon bigot. It's not even a question.
-Martha
Martha, I've been looking for the quotes, but have so far come up empty.
Sorry, but endorsing Gingrich does not prove he's a bigot. LOL. Looks like it came down to Gingrich and Paul.
Sadly, there are only two candidates offering a real means by which to actually undo that which the Left has done to this country for the past 50 years, and not just conservative platitudes. One of those candidates is Ron Paul, but his foreign policy is naive at best and reckless at worst. The other is Newt Gingrich, who has campaigned on what I believe is the most important issue facing us as a people—the loss of the rule of law.
Bachmann and Perry were still in the race too. So there goes the Evangelical angle. Whatever his reasons were for supporting Newt, it doesn't appear to be about religion.
Who were these anti-Mormon bigots who came on his show, and what did they say?
Martha -
Both RW and myself have provided links and quotes to back up our point that Deace is NOT an anti-Mormon bigot.
We've done our homework. You haven't done yours.
Deace endorsed Gingrich because he honestly believed that Gingrich was THE MOST CONSERVATIVE candidate in 2012.
http://stevedeace.com/news/iowa-politics/why-i-am-endorsing-newt-gingrich-for-president/
Nice try, Martha, try again.
RW, I didn't say endorsing Newt proves he's a bigot. lol. Try reading a little more carefully. Newark said Deace's opposition to Romney was because he was a RINO. But Newt is the RINO, not Mitt.
Newark, What can I say? You don't know what you are talking about. You have to go back, back, back to the anti-Mormon wars of 07-08. I've been looking, but cannot find any good links that are from that time period yet. Trust me, Deace was at the center of the anti-Mormon wars in Iowa. It is a fact. You are coming from a position of ignorance if you don't think it happened. It did, and most people know it.
I will try to look on Monday. I'm not going to even think about this trash on the Sabbath Day. I have much better things to do. I just don't know if it's really worth the time though because you won't believe your lying eyes anyway.
We had these discussions over and over and over at race until we all wanted to throw up back in 08. I'm not making it all up. lol.
-Martha
Martha -
You always have one excuse or another for never backing up your points with quotes and links.
All you offer here is hot air. Nothing else. Just a lot of hot air.
Calling people "ignorant" or "bigoted" just because they disagree with you is childish.
It's also a telltale sign that you've LOST THE ARGUMENT, and you know it.
If he truly made anti-Mormon comments, they should be very easy to find. Huckabee's comment from 2008 comes up right away in numerous links when I search for it. Where are Deace's?
Oh you guys, please. Neither of you are making a whole lot of sense.
Newark, saying a few links PROVES Deace is not a bigot is silly. So what if you found a few innocent links. That doesn't prove anything.
Plenty of people disagree with me, and I do not call them bigots. But Deace happens to be a bigot--because of the things he once said.
I told you time and again, the links from 07-08 are harder to find. I told you I would look on Monday. They are real, we talked about them on race many many times.
I have not lost the argument at all. I simply don't have 3 hours to look for old disgusting links.
BTW, why are you both so quick to condemn me and call me a liar? I haven't ever once lied on this or any other forum. What would be the purpose of making something up about Deace? You linked to an article by him and I simply questioned why you would link to such a man. That is all. I have no reason to fabricate anything about him.
It just goes to show that you both just want to fight with me about something-anything. I don't understand that kind of thinking.
Seriously, you're going to die on the Deace hill? Go ahead.
-Martha
I also find it hard to believe Mike Lee would go on his show if he was a well known bigot.
We're you aware that Deace's program airs in Salt Lake City? I would think that would be a tough slog for a bigot.
The reason for the "bigotry" comments was that there was no mention whatsoever of mormonism in the article, and that your "but he's a mormon, so it's ok" line came out of nowhere.
The fact that you took what was up until that point a complete non-factor (Chaffetz' religion) and injected it explicitly and for no apparent reason actually does reveal quite a bit, psychologically.
Somehow it's harder to see when using mormonism, but it's still the same as if someone says "this guy says this thing that I disagree with, but he's a jew so it's ok", or "it's ok because he's black".
Be honest with yourself. You'll have to admit an apology is in order--for needlessly injecting religion into the issue, and for injecting it in the form of a club. Religious differences do exist, and for good reason, but the decent thing is to discuss them in a respectful setting and tone or not at all.
crazy4boys,
You had to be following conversations from the previous day, in another thread to understand. Just so you know, I haven't lost a wink of sleep over being accused of bigotry.
Martha just seems one of those mass over sensitive MRC types.
RW, and NH,
I said I would look up the links today, but frankly why should I? I know what he wrote, said and did to derail Romney over religion! It is well known among people who were trying to fight against it--the people in the trenches at that time. I'm not going to spend hours looking for it just to prove to you that I am telling the truth. I know what I read, and how I felt about it at the time. He is a disgusting person masquerading as a reasonable guy. But just look at his cohorts. He wrote a book withe Gregg Jackson, for crying out loud, who was the one possible person more obsessed with anti-Mormonism than he, excepting Bill Keller. They ALL did everything within their power to stop Romney simply because they hate/and or are afraid of Mormonism and having a Mormon president. It would upset their whole Christian worldview of America to elect a Mormon. They are liars when they say it was all about Romney's record or phoniness. That is cover, as anyone with half a brain can easily see. They are all a bunch of bigots and they do NOTHING to help conservatism! They are dividers!
Now, I do not want to fight with either of you. Hard as it is to imagine, we have more in common as far as our beliefs go, than not. So I apologize for my rude remarks to each of you personally. But I am not going to spend the next 4 hours trying to find that old material just to prove something I am already sure of. Knock yourselves out if you want to do it yourself, because you both seem to have a lot more time than I do to surf around looking for info.
Newark, yes, I do not provide links, I just offer my opinion. I'm not like you, amassing hundreds of links. I don't have the time or the inclination. You do, so good for you. But the idea that my opinion isn't valid simply because I don't provide a link, is unfair. This is a forum where conservatives can speak their mind. That is what I am going to do--without links.
And, I do not appreciate my honesty and integrity called into question simply because it is different than yours and I don't have a link for it!!!
Have a good day anyway. I'm done with this conversation. Now proceed to call me a liar again, and say I lost the argument. I don't care. Got better things to do with this beautiful day!
-Martha
Correction:
And, I do not appreciate my honesty and integrity called into question simply because MY OPINION is different than yours and I don't have a link for it!!!
-Martha
I knew Martha would never provide links. She yaps and yaps but when it is time to provide the evidence, she never does. What a fraud!
I'm not faulting you for not providing a link, because I looked really hard, and could not find one. I don't think they exist. I can usually find anything I want on Google. This time I came up empty.
When you accuse someone of making bigoted comments, it becomes more than an opinion. It would be really helpful to provide some evidence.
RW, here I am like a moth to the flame.
I have looked, and I have not been able to find any link about him earlier than 2009. I can't find one thing from before that. But I know darn well that he said and did many things to disparage Mormonism, and to dissuade Christians from supporting Romney. Townhall used to be a hotbed for anti-Mormon writers. I haven't gone there for years because of it.
Plus, how are you going to go back and find the things he said on his program from that time? You can't, but it is known that he made a point to have guests on very frequently who would were anti-Mormon and would talk about how we should not elect a Mormon. I know that he was active in doing this, he was one of the more vitriolic ones. But I can't prove it. I didn't keep a file or links.
It happened, and you're just going to have to take my word for it. I don't see why you would question it, because I have no reason to lie about him. Why on earth would I make it up? I wouldn't.
-Martha
-Martha
Hey, I'm just saying I can't find a link to any bigoted comments. If he said those things, you would think it would be big news. Like when Jeffords, or whatever his name is, made his Mormon comments. You know the MSM loves to stoke the fire, so I figured there would be something. Not knowing anything about the guy, I had no reason to doubt you initially.
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