Wednesday, July 27, 2011

Did Mitt Romney Flip Flop On The Debt Ceiling?

In the past, Mitt Romney has never been a profile in courage. However, he stepped up to the plate last month by signing Jim Demint’s Cut, Cap, & Balance pledge. I know…I know, he was only fishing for DeMint’s endorsement, but he signed it nonetheless.

Romney even went as far as to call Cut, Cap, and balance his ”line in the sand” for increasing the debt limit.
“And if the president were to do those things, this whole debt ceiling issue disappears,” Romney said. “For me that’s the line in the sand: come on Mr. President, you can by yourself cut spending, agree to cut spending, cap the spending, and put in place a balanced budget amendment. And that for me is the course.”
However, Romney had failed to weigh in on the ongoing negotiations between President Obama and congress….until today.
“Gov. Romney thinks President Obama’s leadership has been an historic failure. He applauds Leader Boehner for standing firm against raising taxes when our nation can least afford them.”
What happened to the “line in the sand,” Mitt?

Romney apologists are suggesting that his lack of courage is due to the politically sensitive nature of the issue. Fantastic. That really inspires confidence. Isn’t this a prime example of why we’re in this mess in the first place?

Cross-posted at Redstate

87 comments:

Doug NYC GOP said...

Making a GIANT assumption here RWN.

Just because Romney praised Boehner for not accepting a deal which included tax increases, does not equate to a flip-flop, since he didn't endorse the entire Boehner plan.

Btw, congratulations on writing a G rated posted.

Pablo said...

Yes, he did flip flop.

"Isn’t this a prime example of why we’re in this mess in the first place?"

No, the reason why we are in this mess is because Americans like low taxes and government spending. So politicians deliver. And the result of course is that we get deficits.

Wrecking the economy in an effort to win a political point is not the way to correct the problem. That is why Romney feels uncomfortable about demanding that the debt ceiling remain untouched.

Of course, Tea Party apologists, who don't know anything about economics, have no problem playing hardball. Until they stop getting their social security checks or unemployment rises another three percent.

Mark my words. If Republicans don't make a deal, they WILL GET THE BLAME when the economy inevitably tanks. Romney, who understands basic economics, doesn't want to attach himself to this kamikaze mission.

Doug NYC GOP said...

It may include a flip, but this interview has Palin flopping around on the issue like one of those large salmon she caught on that faux=TV show hers.

In one conversation she is for not raising the the debt limit, insisting the Gov has enough money coming in to handle our obligations, to cedeing the point we'd have to work out deals (they would be major reforms not realistically achieved under the current political scenario)to meet our obligatiuons, to accepting the debt limit will be raised.

At best, this is a good example of how a wannabe political heavyweight uses platitudes to sound firm and on the ball, while at it's worst, reveals Palin to be politically naive about what can be realistically achieved.


http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2011/07/14/sarah-palin-talks-tough-debt-ceiling-reveals-timeframe-2012-decision?page=1

Doug NYC GOP said...

Too early to call this a flip flop since there is no outright endorsement of Boehner plan. However he has political cover since Palin has basically the same postion.

And we all know what a "profile in courage" she was during her abbreviated Governorship.

Frankly, I think all the 2012ers should remain out of the conversation, since there is much going on behind closed doors, with so many deals and options floating around, it would be hard not to get caught up in some backtracking.

Romney should stay focused on the Economy and Jobs and let the DC insiders haggle this out.

Anonymous said...

Ugh, you know the term “flip-flop” is almost always used incorrectly. This post, being completely intellectually bankrupt, is no exception.
Flip-flop means that you are first for a certain position, then you completely go against that position, THEN you go back to being in favor of that position again. IE; John Kerry was against the war, then he voted for the war, then he campaigned against the war. Flip-flop.

Anonymous said...

RW, I agree with Doug here. Palin has taken a few different positions on the debt ceiling, depending on what day it is and who she's talking to.

-Martha

Ohio JOE said...

I for one am glad that he is flipping on this one. It is a little late to the party, but a step in the right direction nevertheless. To Mr. Romney's credit, he alomost turned my wife into a temporary Romneyite. Shhhhh, strange things happen at certain times of the month.

Right Wingnut said...

OJ,

Given your past comments on the issue, I'm not sure you understood my point.

He originally signed the pledge, but is now failing to lead on the issue....going as far as to praise Boehner yesterday. He had previously said CCB was his "line in the sand."

He has either softened his position considerably, or lacks the intestinal fortitude to take a stand.

Ohio JOE said...

Well than I did misunderstand your point RW. To be clear, both my wife and I am not happy with Mr. Romney for praising the Speaker of the house, but apart from that Mr. Romney is moving to the right a little over the past week. Albiet a day late and a dollar short.

Anonymous said...

I don't see how Palin flip flopped on this issue, she has consistently stated that the country can endure, by current revenues, paying the debt, the interest on the debt and the most important parts of Government spending. She acknowledged that the inevitably the debt ceiling would be raised, so the Cut, Cap and Balance Amendment is the better way to go under that inevitable scenario.

Also, isn't this thread about Romney?

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

Pablo said: "Wrecking the economy in an effort to win a political point is not the way to correct the problem."

How is wrecking the economy winning a political point?

As you said in your comment: "...the reason why we are in this mess is because Americans like low taxes and government spending. So politicians deliver. And the result of course is that we get deficits."

Everybody knows we cannot follow this model any longer...something has to give. Our party is for lesser taxes and lesser spending. The Democrats are for higher taxes and higher spending(a model that has never worked) What is so bizarre for our representatives to expect DC to live within its means without raising our taxes? Why is that such a horrific concept?

Pablo, I just don't get you...I really don't. You have such apprehension for your own party's ideas and stances on the issues that you believe the President and the liberals view rather than members of your own party?

How do you even consider yourself a Republican anymore? As a Republican, don't you have to stand for at least one leg of the stool?

I don't mean to be antagonistic but I cannot remember which leg you stand for? I thought you were a fiscal conservative...part of being a fiscal conservative is the belief in lesser taxes and lesser spending. From this comment it doesn't seem as if you believe in that any longer?

jerseyrepublican

Right Wingnut said...

JR,

I seem to remember Pablo writing a slew of posts about the lack of courage shown by Republicans on dealing with the debt and entitlement reform.

According to Pablo, when it's Romney ducking the issue, it's just good politics.

Ohio JOE said...

Fortuately, the women politicians are not ducking the issue at all. They are directly challenging Mr.Obama and the hacks on over-spending.

Right Wingnut said...

OJ, How has Romney moved to the right over the past week? He's avoiding the issue at all costs. When cornered, and forced to respond, his advisor should have repeated the "line in the sand" stance on the matter. Either that, or Romney shouldn't have signed DeMint's pledge.

Right Wingnut said...

On Greta's show last night, Palin repeated her stance on the matter. She would not vote for the increase in the debt limit. However, she understands that it will be raised, so CCB amendment is the route they should take. In short, she knows it's a give and take, but that the GOP needs to get the best possible deal. That doesn't appear t be happening.

Doug NYC GOP said...

RW,

If you want to claim failure of leadership on the issue, that is one thing, but there is no flip-flop here. You are mixing up your charges here.

Praising Boehner for SPECIFICALLY not going for a deal which raises taxes, is not in any way backing away from, flipping on or backtracking from CCB.

I disagree with Pablo here as well, there is no flip-flop.

Anonymous said...

Other than calling out Palin, for no reason whatsoever, I have to agree on Doug with this one...to a point. I don't see how a compliment to Boehner, for not raising taxes, is a flip flop.

BUT(there's always a but)

I don't see Romney even attempting to lead on this issue. He needs to make a stronger stand or risks being condemned to the scrap heap.

jerseyrepublican

Ohio JOE said...

"Praising Boehner for SPECIFICALLY not going for a deal which raises taxes," That part I am on board with, but while I could have misundersttod things, I was not happy that he praised Mr. Beohner in general terms. The Speaker should be thanked for being against taxed cuts, but he does not deserve a hero buscuit for things in general. I vote for my Congressman, not the Speaker.

Ohio JOE said...

"I don't see Romney even attempting to lead on this issue." That is true; while he made a few good speeches, he has not lead especially when compared to other candidates and potential candidates. He has no done the heavy lifting.

Anonymous said...

RW, regarding Pablo's past articles condemning Republicans for not making entitlement reform and spending a more important concern and then flip flopping with this debt limit increase is just another example of his inherent distaste for the Tea Party, Talk Radio and DeMint. I think, in his mind, if they agree with it...it must be wrong. Since they've confiscated his belief...he has to change his beliefs...it's really that simple. IMO.

jerseyrepublican

Right Wingnut said...

I did not say it was a flip-flop. I asked the question. Note the question mark in the title.

However, I don't think he was sincere in signing the pledge. I don't think he has the nuts to overcome political pressure to follow through on it.

His advisor should have repeated hos desire for CCB when asked about Boehner's plan. We'll see what happens from here.

Anonymous said...

This is not a flip flop,but a desperate atempt to look for a flip flop... NEXT!!!!

Right Wingnut said...

Boehner's plan is now on the scrap heap. Apparently, it only cut spending by $1 billion this year. The federal government spends that much in about 4 hours. What a joke.

Ohio JOE said...

"I don't think he has the nuts to overcome political pressure to follow through on it." That remains my concern and I hope my wife does not fall for what he has to say.

Ohio JOE said...

"Boehner's plan is now on the scrap heap." Well thank goodness for that. We the People deserve the credit for this, not Mr. Romney.

Anonymous said...

OJ, I watched the President's address the other night and I was appalled at the tactic he used. I cannot believe he made a call to the citizens to contact their Senators and Representatives...it seemed really beneath the office...But I digress, after hearing the President describe Boehner's involvement in the talks and how he commended him...I began getting angry at Boehner...until I heard Boehner's address and how he contradicted everything the President said. Now I'm just angry at how poorly the address was delivered...the President was even worse. I thought he was supposed to be a great orator? That was even a lie.

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

Good point RW. You did ask the question.

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

RW, you are now flip flopping on your charge that romney flip flopped on the debt ceiling. You obviously wrote this post believing romney flip flopped on this, with a very catchy title. You would not have titled this post "Did Mitt Romney flip flop on the debt ceiling?", if you didnt believe it was a flip flop. Now that your charge has been shot down even by your closest allies here, you are now backing away from it and deny accusing romney of flip flopping on the debt ceiling but that it was only a question. haha baloney! See how that flip flopping charge goes both ways??

Flipper

Anonymous said...

I agree with the last part RW. His adviser should have confirmed Romney's desire for CCB.

jerseyrepublican

Right Wingnut said...

RW, you are now flip flopping on your charge that romney flip flopped on the debt ceiling. You obviously wrote this post believing romney flip flopped on this, with a very catchy title. You would not have titled this post "Did Mitt Romney flip flop on the debt ceiling?", if you didnt believe it was a flip flop. Now that your charge has been shot down even by your closest allies here, you are now backing away from it and deny accusing romney of flip flopping on the debt ceiling but that it was only a question. haha baloney! See how that flip flopping charge goes both ways??

Flipper


------------------------

No. You're missing the point. I asked the question, "Did Mitt Romney Flip Flop On The Debt Ceiling?"

Based on what we heard yesterday, the jury is still out. That pledge he signed is fairly straight forward. DeMint's stance on the issue allows very little wiggle room.

Anonymous said...

Martha, relax...we're not at war. RW actually did the correct thing to spur a debate...put it in the form of a question.

It is arguable that Romney might not be for CCB any longer. It is also arguable that Romney, via his adviser, MERELY wanted to send some praise to Boehner for Boehner's action of, "drawing a line in the sand?" Either way, there IS a political game being played here...by ROmney and his surrogates. How important that game will be, or is...is the real question.

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

Sorry, my above comment should have been addressed to "Flipper"...

jerseyrepublican

Right Wingnut said...

Allahpundit from Hot Air is wondering the same thing.

Pawlenty comes out against Boehner’s plan, Romney … not so sure

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/26/pawlenty-comes-out-against-boehners-plan-romney-not-so-sure/

Anonymous said...

I can see that Romney can say that CCB is HIS line in the sand--that if he were president that would be what he would insist on. He has the skill set (and temperament) to go through government spending with a fine-tooth comb and cut out duplication, waste, inefficiency, and non-necessities. He also recognizes that uncertainty is anathema to business growth and would (as he has said) immediately make Obamacare go away. He also has stated that he would be for using our own energy resources of all kinds, which would be a boost to the economy, probably off-setting on the public side any jobs lost on the government side. BUT, he obviously can't guarantee those currently in the WH and Congress would do those things.

Noelle said...

To be honest, I struggle to wrap my head around this issue. What I know for certain is that there is a major spending problem in Washington DC. The best approach to solve the current "debt ceiling crisis" I do not know. Frankly I think the current government cannot solve it. Obama and the democrats are unwilling to acknowledge that our problem is a spending problem, not a "revenue problem" (a.k.a. we need more taxes" and the Republicans are holding firm on not raising taxes. I don't want the Republicans to give in and raise taxes, and liberals don't want the democrats to give in and significantly lower taxes.

I don't know how any of the current GOP candidates can do anything to help the problem along. Obama is not taking their advice, and it's his job they are after.

The only real solution is to vote Obama out and replace him with a person who has the credentials and the knowledge and understanding to fix the current broken government. And Mitt Romney is the person I think is best qualified to do that.

Noelle said...

Sorry, I mis-typed. I meant to say lower spending, not lower taxes at the end of the first paragraph. I should have proof-read.

Massachusetts Conservative said...

The lack of sophistication on the part of Romney detractors is really entertaining.

Where's the flip-flop? Where's the flip?

Praising someone for opposing tax increases is not an endorsement of their plan.

Anonymous said...

Jersey, are you accusing me of posting anon again? I only made one comment about Palin being the one doing the flip-flopping.

And she has. I found several different conflicting quotes/opinions she holds on the debt ceiling being raised, depending on who she's talking to.

She is doing EXACTLY what RW accused Romney of doing. So ironic! Ha ha.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

Romney signed the pledge but also realizes there's this little thing called reality. That's why he praised Boehner for the work he's doing. I sure wouldn't want his job. The House better wise up and get this subject off the table or they are going to screw up 2012. We CANNOT do anything about spending until we win the White House and the Senate, people. Get a clue.

-Martha

Doug NYC GOP said...

RW,

From the title to the tone to the content this was designed as a hit piece on Romney.

Now, with the aid of punctuation mark, in this case a question mark, you arre trying to spin this entire post as thought provoking essay.

This reminds me of the Clintonian "depends on what the meaning of is is" charade.

Let me clear this up for you:

Romney is against raising taxes in the current economic climate.

Romney believes cutting & capping spending and then enacting a BBA is the best approach, one a President can do a lot to advance through leadership.

He said Ombama's leadership has been lousy -- and he's right.

He then went on to praise Boehner for not going a long with a tax increase to gain a deal.

That is it.

Now regarding getting out front and huffing and puffing about this issue, I think it's nonsense. At this juncture he is one of many candidates seeking the nomination, not the nominee.

He's not at the negotiation table or behind closed doors with GOP leadership, so he has no inside info on what is being bandied about.

So to go out and make grand pronouncements would come off more as political pandering and posturing, simply for publicity's (or to meet Cable TV news contractual obligations - wink, wink) sake.

As I said before, let the DC insider work out this deal and the 2012ers should move on from there. If I were the GOP leadership and someone runnng for office was trying to butt in, they'd certianly get an earful.

And I think most voters would feel that way as well.

As Jimmy Durante used to say - "Everybody wants to get into the act."

That's something we don't need right now.

Romeny 2012 - Restraint, Reform and Recovery!!!

Anonymous said...

Martha...proof? Everything I have read and heard from Palin is consistent. How convenient that you have heard otherwise.

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

Doug, nice summation. So right in everything you said.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

Jersey, when I searched Palin on the debt ceiling, I found numerous conflicting statements. In the Newsweek article, she said no raising it, period.

Then she told Hannity, it must be raised.

There are many other statements, too.

She's all over the map.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

Doug and martha,

Easy now, dont be too harsh, were about due for a RW F bomb in a minute or so...everybody just calm down, this is a non-issue.


Flipper

Ohio JOE said...

"The House better wise up and get this subject off the table or they are going to screw up 2012." The House is wise Martha, it is the President and the Senate that needs to wise up. Quit blaming Conservatives for the mess that liberals made.

Noelle said...

Well said, Doug.

Anonymous said...

Martha, she never told Hannity that the debt ceiling must be raised. In fact she said the exact opposite. She did say that we cannot default on our debt...but never in the interview did she say the debt ceiling should be raised.

In fact, she laid out ideas to not raise the debt ceiling and also not default on our debt. I don't where you get this information.

She did acknowledge that the debt ceiling would be raised and with that inevitability, she supports Cut, Cap and Balance.

Palin has been consistent on this and if you have proof other wise...other than trying to mince her words around...please provide the proper links in defense of your argument. If you do not have the proof, a retraction is in order.

Thank you,
jerseyrepublican

Ohio JOE said...

"She did say that we cannot default on our debt...but never in the interview did she say the debt ceiling should be raised." Sometimes I wonder if Martha truly gets that. After all, she blames the House for our problems instead of the President.

Anonymous said...

OJ, she gets it...she's just a liar. That's why she was banned from Race and ROS...for lying about Palin and her family...of course she might not believe they are lies...but that's a totally different issue.

A lot of the people on this site have no interest in researching Palin...so they'll just take Martha's word for it and Martha knows that...she hopes they'll spread the misinformation to as many people as they can.

What cracks me up is that she has been caught before but swears she doesn't lie. When you lie, then get caught in a lie, but then swear you do not ever lie...what the hell does that make you?

jerseyrepublican

Ohio JOE said...

Yes Jersey Martha does have a problem telling the truth, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt (perhaps Naively) and believe that she is ignorant.

Anonymous said...

Oj, she is either a liar or she has a comprehension issue. I have always said that I believe Martha to be one of the sharpest commenters on this site...so I tend to believe the former rather than the latter.

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

I probably should have called out Doug for using the same exact example...but I think he might have a comprehension issue...hahaha...just kidding Doug!!! I also know he was just trying to get back at RW for writing this piece to begin with. And we already have too much bad blood.

jerseyrepublican

Ohio JOE said...

I understand that Doug is busy at his job, so he may not have time to do the proper research.

GetReal said...

Short answer to the title question: No.

Long answer: No, he didn't. What was the point of that question?

Anonymous said...

WTH. I have never lied once about Palin or her family. I was banned from Race and ROS because I am critical of Palin in relationship to her family. I've never once criticized any Palin family member.

Prove that I lie or shut up. I never call you guys liars. All you ever resort to are accusations about me lying, because you cannot handle the truth.

Anyway, yes, Palin has said different things in different interviews. And I think her idea that that we can just not pay the bills shows just how stupid she really is.

You guys are just so willing to throw away everything in a fit. I'm not. We need to sign the damn Boehner bill and move on or we are toast.

-Martha

Ohio JOE said...

"And I think her idea that that we can just not pay the bills shows just how stupid she really is." She is correct. The Speaker of the House is behaving like a bull in a China Shop. BTW, Martha, why do you give the Speaker of the House a pass when use uses body parts. Yet you get mad when Mrs. Palin and I use body parts.

Anonymous said...

Martha, once again you are lying!!! She never said we shouldn't pay our bills. She said the exact opposite. I even used the Hannity interview, that you referenced, as proof!!! She has been consistent...if you have proof of something different...then provide the proof or admit that you are either wrong or lying.

This is getting ridiculous with you now.

jerseyrepublican

BTW, Doug provided the link to the Hannity interview...the transcript is right there...once again...she never said anything that you claim she said...she said the exact opposite.

Anonymous said...

Jersey, last night I went through a a bunch of Palin quotes on the issue. I have not had time today to re-read everything. I felt that she was talking out of both sides of her mouth on this.

Go ahead and prove me wrong. Write a post on it--with everything she's said on the debt ceiling for the last 2 months. If you are write, I will gladly take back the flip-flop charge.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

Martha, it is just so amazing that you think that if you repeat the same thing over again that it somehow will be true.

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

Martha, where do you find these Palin quotes?

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

oops, right. I hate it when that happens.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

So, your criteria for believing the truth is for me to write a post(I'm not a FPP) that includes everything Palin has ever said about the debt ceiling?

Are you serious?

I already used the example you provided to prove you wrong...what more do I need to do?

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

Also, guys. Prove I lied once. I haven't. Go back to the old race days and find one lie. Or find one here.

I haven't, and I don't. I have opinions. You don't like them. Deal.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

Jersey, I don't have time right now to go back and re-read everything. Why can't you write a post? Bosman would love you to get on board here. If you think I'm lying, prove it.

Tonight, I will go back and listen to the interview, and read everything. If I'm wrong I will gladly say so. It's possible I misread her points.

The thing that bothers me Jersey, is that we've been around each other for over 3 years. You know me, and I pretty much know you. I don't see how you can continually call me a liar with a straight face. You know I don't lie, and so does everyone else who's been around. I like you, and I don't appreciate you making these accusations time and again.

-Martha

-Martha

Anonymous said...

Martha, I never said I didn't like you. but there is a difference between a strong opinion and a false statement. It's just like the ACES comment that it is a windfall tax...when it is factually not a windfall tax...it's a royalty. There is no opinion necessary. There is just fact and fiction. When it comes to Palin you're often on the fiction side.

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

Jersey, so that's the lie you found? Ha ha.

The 'royalty' is in effect a tax. I believe the law even calls it that. That is not a lie, it's a difference of opinion about what to call the tax. My point in that whole argument was that I didn't care what you called it, the effects are the same whether it is called a royalty, or a tax.

There is not, and has never been any fiction/lie in anything I say about Palin. Not even the trig truther stuff. I said the pics and story line didn't make sense to me. That's all.

-Martha

-Martha

Doug NYC GOP said...

I probably should have called out Doug for using the same exact example...but I think he might have a comprehension issue...hahaha...just kidding Doug!!! I also know he was just trying to get back at RW for writing this piece to begin with. And we already have too much bad blood.

jerseyrepublican

July 27, 2011 1:34 PM
-----------------

Pretty close to the truth there, I don't have a comprehension problem and I was being a little snarky to even the field with tone of the original post. ;)

Regarding Plain's comments on the Hannity show, while there may not be actual flip-floppery there, she made some statements that might come back to haunt her. Her position about not believing the the consequences of default are somewhat reckless and showy. Showy in the sense, she likes to present that gutsy "No retreat, reload" bravado, which her fans expect, but she can't guarantee there won't be negative effects should we default. If there is default and some negative fallout, she has set herself up to look ill-informed, out of touch and extreme. Qualities she doesn't need to branded with. (Unless of course you are not planning to stage a national campaign.)

In addition, I find the whole line of thought about how we can pay to keep everything going on the $200 billion a month which is generated, is problematic as well.

When you read the transcript (maybe it plays different on the video, I'll have to watch it later) it seems Hannity is pointing out to her, with only $39 Billion leftover after debt service, SS checks, Defense, etc., many other vital programs wouldn't have enough money not to be cut. Palin's response is pretty weak, suggesting the Dem & Rep now start reforming things. At this juncture I don't view that as a realistic expectation. Even if we take control of the Senate or WH in 2012, there would be very pitched battles every step of the way. So comes off as half baked to me.

So while she may not flip-flop, I found her positions to be, shall we say, a little scattered, when it comes to actually crafting a deal.

Which is why all the 2012ers should stay out of this fight. They really have no ability to effect the outcome and have a lots of downside potential. Romney's CCB line against Obama, while sounding good, should also be filed in the "I'll beleive it when I see it" folder. To think Obama would inreality, cut spending, cap it and push for a BBA is a pipe dream. Romney is right though in suggesting a Right-minded President would do such a thing.

I think that's the impression he, and other who make such statements, hope the voters are left with.

Anonymous said...

Doug, she implicityly said that "we cannot default." It's right there in the transcript. If we do not raise the debt ceiling...it doesn't mean we'll default...Geithner even admitted to that.

She also never said the cuts would be easy.

At some point we must make cuts...why not now?

The debt ceiling really is just an arbitrary number, as long as we service the debt we will not lose our credit rating.

Why raise the debt limit...the whole point of raising the debt limit is to accrue more debt.

Don't we already have enough? We cannot put this off any longer.

jerseyrepublican

Ohio JOE said...

"Don't we already have enough? We cannot put this off any longer." Unfortunately, Doug and Martha have not had enough spending and are content to compromise with Mr. Obama.

Anonymous said...

OJ, no. I'm not content to compromise with Obama. My goal would be for the House to be united and pass the best thing they can pass. Then the Democrats can sign it or be blamed for default.

It necessitates that not everyone in the House will be perfectly satisfied, but as Bosman says, a half a pie is better than nothing.

We can work on the rest of the pie when we win the WH and Senate. Until then we should not shoot ourselves in the foot, and lose in 2012.

You see, we both want the same thing, OJ. We just have a different view of how to get there. I believe my idea is based on reality.

-Martha

Ohio JOE said...

"a half a pie is better than nothing." But we really even getting a piece of the crust. Further, the fact that the Speaker, Mr. Ryan and Mr. Cantor behaved like spoiled children today is reason enough to punish the GOP.

Anonymous said...

OJ, if you punish the GOP, you will get 4 more years of disaster.

You have to see the big picture. Vindication is not more important that doing what is best in the long haul. A little pragmatism is a good thing.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

Jersey,

To begin with, I brought up Palin in this conversation because I believe she is far more open to the flip-flop charge here than Romney is. But after re-reading all of her statements, I think my flip-flop charge was not exactly accurate.

But she wants her cake and to eat it too. She wants to be able to spout the 'hells no' line, but at the same time saying she would accept raising it under certain conditions.

PALIN: "It's -- if I were in Congress, I WOULD NOT VOTE TO INCUR MORE DEBT, not under this president. I -- I do not trust him.
However, as I've gone on record saying previously, I believe that it will be increased, because too many in Congress believe that the -- the president must have that allowance of increasing the debt.
So, having said that, WHAT I WOULD ACCEPT, knowing that it's going to be increased anyway, is DeMint's plan to cut the cap and to balance our budget.

In other words, she adamantly says she WOULD NOT vote to raise it, but then she says she WOULD accept raising it if cut cap and balance were passed.

She's naive to think that we can avoid default and pay the bills without raising the debt ceiling. She hasn't got a clue about how to solve the problem other than her familiar and vague 'common sense solutions;, and 'not retreating', don't you know!

So actually, it would be better for her to flip-flop than to spout the nonsensical things she's saying. She’s on the sidelines, and not on the field, so she can be as irresponsible with her suggestions as she wants to be.

That is why I much prefer what Romney is doing.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

Thank you Martha. I obviously do not agree with the totality of your statement but it's a start. I didn't take that statement to mean anything other than what she said. If it's going to be passed anyway, then she supports Cut, Cap and Balance. I think that's a pretty reasonable place to be.

I don't think she is naive...she has cut a budget in times of surplus. Once again you refer to her platitude comments from the past. You are choosing to see the Palin you want to see. She stated that you can cut the Energy Department and other departments. She also said that it would be a temporary fix until a more balanced budget is introduced.

BUT...I cannot look a gift horse in the mouth. I take back that you lied about this...I think you sometimes read what you want to read about Palin because your anti-Palin side takes over.

To make it clear...before we start singing Kumbaya...I disagree with you last two paragraphs but it's a conversation I am willing to have. I would rather keep the donchaknows out of the conversation but I can't expect a miracle...right?

jerseyrepublican

Anonymous said...

BTW, in your 4th paragraph I did notice that you were still trying to say that she kinda flip flopped...luckily in your 1st paragraph you cleared of her that charge...

jerseyrepublican

Ohio JOE said...

"OJ, if you punish the GOP, you will get 4 more years of disaster." And if we do not punish the GOP, we could get more than 4 years of disaster.

"A little pragmatism is a good thing."
We are pragmatic, it is their turn to show pragmatism. Boehmer 1.0 was pragmatic enough, we do not need 2.0.

Anonymous said...

Jersey, thanks. I think the things she suggesting are simply not realistic. They sound great, though.

I have no doubt that if Palin were in Boehner's position, she would be doing exactly the same things he's doing. She was a very pragmatic governor, and worked with Democrats all the time.

Anyway, we've all got bigger fish to fry right now. Perry is a nutjob, and he's actually more close to running than Palin. I don't think he will stop her from running if she has her mind made up. Things should get interesting.

-Martha

Jaxemer11 said...

What the freaking crap kind of post is this? How did someone with such a small brain ever get the right to make front page posts here? It is a sad commentary on the quality of this site that this kind of nonsense gets highlighted here.

Right Wingnut said...

Jax,

Care to explain why your candidate is hiding under his desk during the most pivitol policy debate of the year?

If not, STFU.

Anonymous said...

LOL RW. Romney isn't hiding at all. You really should do more investigating before you post.

It's your candidate who is afraid to 'put herself out there in the name of service to this great nation'.

-Martha

Ohio JOE said...

"LOL RW. Romney isn't hiding at all." Not, but he has not stood up to the Speaker, unlike my Congressman so far.

Right Wingnut said...

OJ,

Really? Not hiding? What's his take on the ongoing negotiations?

I suspect he'll endorse Boehner's plan after it's signed into law. That's how Mitt rolls.

Anonymous said...

RW and OJ. Romney said he favors CCB. He signed their pledge. He said Boehner is doing great holding the line on taxes. He is. Romney is not part of the ongoing negotiations, nor should be be commenting on houly developements.

He's doing everything he can to win in 2012.I'm tickled pink about where he is at in the race, and what he is doing to remain the frontrunner.

We can't do anything about spending until we win the WH. Romney is working on that, while Palin fiddles.

Don't worry about Romney, you guys should encourage her to get off her fanny, and start making a difference.

-Martha

Ohio JOE said...

"Don't worry about Romney, you guys should encourage her to get off her fanny, and start making a difference." HELLO, at least she has the ball to stand up to the Speaker; Mr. Romney, not so much.

Right Wingnut said...

.I'm tickled pink about where he is at in the race

Martha,

Where is he at in the race? Considering that polls mean very little this far out, it seems you're taking the situation for granted. given that Mitt is reportedly already compiling his short list for VP candidates, he apparently is too.

The real campaign doesn't start untill fall. Perhaps his opponents will finally flush out his positions by then.

Anonymous said...

RW, too bad mama grizzy wont be one of his opponents, at least shes smart enough to realize she lacks a few brain cells for the job. Aren't we about due for one of your rants and F-bombs in defending the queen?..haha sucker!

Anon john

Lawanda said...

Romney doesn't do anything unless it can make a difference. Just because he's running for president and the polls are currently in his favor, doesn't mean that he has any influence over what congress does.The congress knew where he stood just as they knew where Sarah Palin stood and it didn't make any difference since neither of them are in the congress. So, to say he's not a leader when it wasn't his place is ridiculous.