Tuesday, February 7, 2012

Responding to Lionhead

Yesterday, Lionhead wrote the following:
Conservative values include:
  • placing ideas and principles above personal desire, weaknesses, fears and regrets
  • a never-ending quest for the truth, despite obstacles based on emotion and personal experience, and spreading such truths for the benefit of all
I completely agree, although I am not sure that those values are inherently "conservative." Conservatism is a process, not a set of values. I approach the possibility of change very slowly and judiciously, therefore I am a conservative (see Edmund Burke). A liberal is more optimistic about the possibility of change. Conservatives want to conserve the foundation, liberals want to change the status quo. Our society is benefited when we have two parties that coherently represent these two sides of the coin. Unfortunately, we have a credible party representing the gas pedal, but not a credible party representing the brakes.

However, I want to make a larger point regarding Lionhead's comments. Can the Talk Radio-fueled Conservative Movement of the past three years be said to place ideas above fears and to seek truth despite obstacles based on emotion and personal experience? I would argue that that does not describe them at all. Let me list a few examples.

Things that the Tea Party believes that isn't true:

1. That Barack Obama is a Muslim Socialist that wants to destroy our country.
2. That the recession was caused by government spending and, therefore, could be fixed with massive cuts in spending (this conflicts with Macroeconomics 101).
3. That Obamacare is socialized medicine and that Republicans didn't support an individual mandate for the past two decades (see Heritage Foundation circa 1993).
4. That taxes are way too high (they are actually at their lowest levels since the 1950s) and that Barack Obama raised our taxes (he has not, to date).
5. That conserving the earth through clean energy policies is not conservative.
6. That Obama has put thousands of lazy blacks people on food stamps (he has not directed policy changes regarding food stamps and there are way more whites on food stamps than blacks).
7. That it is possible to balance the budget by increasing Defense spending, cutting taxes for the richest, and making significant non-mandatory spending cuts. Also, that any kind of tax increase for the rich will wreck the economy.
8. That a long fence will stop illegal immigrants from entering the country (and don't worry about the cost).
9. That Obama is a hapless imposter dependent on a teleprompter and that the way to beat him is to send a nominee that appeals to a narrow portion of the American public.
10. That the media, liberals, Muslims, the establishment, intellectuals, immigrants and other assorted bogeymen are conspiring to destroy white working class and Christian culture.

I stand with Lionhead in the quest for truth. I hope he stands with me. We can't approach public policy discussions in a methodically and judicious way if we don't even understand the world around us.


Anonymous said...

Regarding #8> Fences do indeed work. Fences work great for Israel. Fences work great for me by keeping the neighbor kids out of my yard (They have to ring the doorbell for permission to go into my backyard to retrieve a ball). Fences work, but I assume you are thinking like a liberal and you are saying that fences are 100% effective, so don't build it at all. Even if the fence is 90% effective, or 50% effective, it is worth building. Just because my front door is only 99% effective in keeping strangers out does not mean that I shouldn't have it.

As for the the rest of the list, it sounds like the stereotypical thinking of what the left assumes about the tea party. Most of your assumptions are incorrect.

Ohio JOE said...

"That Obama has put thousands of lazy blacks people on food stamps (he has not directed policy changes regarding food stamps and there are way more whites on food stamps than blacks)." STOP with this non-sense. Yes Mr. Obama has put people on food stamps, but they are not all Black and not all lazy.

Terrye said...

Truth is not about politics...too many people see the world through too small a prism.

There was a time when "conservative" church leaders believed the world was flat..that was not true. But those people were not evil..it was just the times they lived in.

BTW, Santorum told a whopper about Romney and contraception, and he is the current favorite of the ABR crowd..does that mean that he is not a real conservative? or does it mean he is a desperate politician?

Terrye said...


I am not going to quibble about a fence..but the truth is Israel is about the size of Vermont...not the same thing. In fact,right now it takes a really dedicated illegal about 30 seconds to scale that expensive fence we are building down there..that is assuming he is not coming in underground.

Anonymous said...

As always Pablo...great post. Pragmatism and ideology have a hard time coexisting but we both understand the need for both.


TeaPartyForRomney.com said...

Here is the clarification that Lionhead needed:
Funny that you would reference 'chapters' that are sections of all the laws that were passed in Massachusetts, not the health care bill. Romney's health care plan is only 72 pages. The other 'chapters' you reference are not part of the health care plan. And it is great that you added 'Chapter 205, which were signed in November 29, 2007. Romney was released on January 4, 2007. Right before he left office he passed Chapter 450, which struck out sections of the previous laws because of their overreach. Chapter 324 was written to clarify and amend the law as well. Chapter 58 is the only part of RomneyCare which is 72 pages.

Anything else you need clarifying? These are simple things you could actually read to find out instead of simply trying to smear.

As per this article:
1. Radical factions of Tea Party think Obama's a Muslim, not all. But he admitted himself that he is trying to fundamentally change this nation.
2. The economy was caused by government overregulation forcing the banks to sell volatile loans which they wouldn't want to hold on to. That destroyed the housing market which started destroying the economy.
3. No the individual mandate was started by the Heritage Foundation as a Conservative alternative to HilaryCare. Romney and Heritage created one that: "Pay for your insurance, or pay your own bill." Romney had an opt-out and a deregulation of the industry and it was the democrats that changed the mandate to pay for insurance or pay a fine. Federal govt's huge safety blanket where we have to pay for those that don't pay for themselves is the real problem. We need personal responsibility.
4. Taxes are low no thanks to Obama, remember that it was he that wanted to dissolve the Bush tax cuts and raise everyone's taxes.
5. It's government intervention and liberal policies that we don't agree with in saving the environment.
6. Actually there are more whites on food stamps than black but yes there are more food stamp recipients than ever in history. He has done nothing to help bring back jobs. He has actually hindered most steps such as the dozens of bills that came from the House and are waiting in limbo.
7. It is not impossible to balance the budget while keeping America's military strong and creating tax cuts. Tax cuts has always created a better economy. We waste way too much money in government, that waste if cleaned up can balance the budget.
8. No a long fence is a deterrent, killing the magnets is the death nail on immigration, no illegals will come if they can't get benefits or jobs.
9. Sorry, this is an easy one, Obama is no great orator, take away the teleprompter and he is no better than an amateur community organizer.
10. BS, do I need to say anything else. Media is left leaning... fact. Liberal are trying to change the nation/culture... fact. Muslims are great citizens, unless they try to radically change our society... Fact. Immigrants are hurting the economy... in many industrys... fact.

Your ignorance astounds me. I never knew there were people like you out there.

Right Wingnut said...

Your ignorance astounds me. I never knew there were people like you out there.

I came to this conclusion 3 years ago. I've learned over time that a debate with Pablo is a dead end to nowhere.

Slick-Willy said...

Pablo -

Generally I love your stuff. On this one I've got to go w/Teaparty on substance. Just as the radical wing of the GOP (some who call themselves "tea party") go too far in their accusations, you too have gone too far in your critique.

Your post is full of straw men and red herrings, which act to conceal very real issues only a step or two from the claim you call ridiculous.

Lionhead said...

Pablo, just what is your meaning of all this? You write in the most obtuse style I've ever seen. How about restating the things you believe the "Tea Party" believes, not "Things that the Tea Party believes that isn't true:"

I am not going to agree or disagree on things I can't understand. Sorry.

Lionhead said...

@TeaPartyforRomney.com, I will address your comment re "Lion's Den" directly at the original post.

Anonymous said...

"I am not going to agree or disagree on things I can't understand.'

Why not? Lack of understanding hasn't stopped you in the past.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

I don't think you should assign all of these beliefs to everyone in the Tea Party. The Tea Party is very diverse and beliefs vary among them.


Right Wingnut said...

Why hasn't Pablo shown up to defend this garbage?

Ohio JOE said...

"The Tea Party is very diverse and beliefs vary among them." Shhhhh, that spoils the false talking points.

Pablo said...

Right Wingnut,

I work for a living so I can't spend my every waking moment defending my stuff. And if you had a decent comment then I might respond. But alas...

Anonymous said...


Lionhead, TeaPartyForRomney.com & Slick-Willy had decent comments. Why don't you respond to those?


Right Wingnut said...

AJR, He can't. His post is garbage, and he knows it.