Tuesday, April 12, 2011

David Frum Is Afraid

Good thoughts, but...
So here’s my Romney problem, triggered by yesterday’s formal announcement (hem, exploration.
I think Mitt Romney would make a fine president. If economic conditions remain depressed into 2012, he could well defeat President Obama.

But if the economy recovers, then the normal rule of American politics would expect the incumbent to win even if the GOP nominated the second coming of Teddy Roosevelt.

And while Romney would be a fine candidate to win with, he would be a very dangerous candidate for Republicans to lose with. If Romney should be nominated and defeated, it’s easy to imagine Republicans deciding that the route to victory is to do Tea Party 2.0 in 2014 and 2016 – doubling down on the extremism of 2009-2010 long past their sell-by date.
There is a flaw in David's thinking. Talk radio conservatives will, no matter what, claim victory for their side, regardless of whether Romney wins or not. If Romney loses the general elections, it will only be because Rush Limbaugh is right. If Romney wins the general election, it will only be because Rush Limbaugh is right. Talk radio conservatives are not about to stop enriching themselves over some pesky details of whether their worldview is real.

Rush Limbaugh has managed to blame John McCain's defeat in 2008 on "moderates" in the Republican Party. For Limbaugh, it is evidence that the Republican Party needs to be more "conservative" (read: angry and unreasonable). It is remarkable that a man who pays attention to current events could believe that Republicans would have had more success had Palin been at the top of the ticket. Other than the hope and change mantra that Obama preached throughout his campaign, the only other phrase that came out of Obama's mouth was the claim that McCain was just another Bush, thought by 90% of the country to be too conservative. McCain was the most, unlike-Bush candidate that the Republicans could have produced and he still couldn't escape the Bush charge or the history-making of the Obama campaign.

So, no, David, talk radio conservatives will try to claim success for everything they do, despite the fact that they are never right. Governance Republicans need to solider on, regardless. History is filled with examples of people who succeeding despite possible consequences if they failed. Normandy was not a sure thing.

Now is not the time to get scared. Our national debt is too great and our unemployment too high to allow talk radio conservatives to intimidate us.

60 comments:

Anonymous said...

General Pablo,

So you are telling me that in the entire history of Talk Radio that none of the hosts were ever right about anything? Not even once? You would think they would get something right just by pure luck. I mean even a broken clock is right twice a day but you know best. You are the Commanding General of the "Reasonable Conservative" Army fighting the Grand Crusade against Rush Limbaugh, Talk Radio and Fox News. I'm sure you will now refer to me as a Dope, Racist, Neanderthal, Crazy, an Idiot, an Ignorant Fool, etc., etc., etc. because I questioned you and your arrogant condescending attitude toward anyone who disagrees with you.

By the way, still waiting for you to call Limbaugh's show so you can put him in his place. You implied that you could easily make Limbaugh look like a fool so I want to see what you can do. You can't win the war for the "Reasonable Conservative" cause if you don't get on the battlefield.

A.J.R.

OhioJOE said...

"Now is not the time to get scared. Our national debt is too great and our unemployment too high" Yeaaaaah, and how does Generalisimo Pablisimo intend to fix that? Ban fox, I guess.

OhioJOE said...

"So you are telling me that in the entire history of Talk Radio that none of the hosts were ever right about anything? Not even once?" That is only because he has never listened to my local Radio host, but hey.

Matt "MWS" said...

Pablo,

Other than the "never right" hyperbole, a great post.

Anonymous said...

OJ, I didnt know mama grizzly had her own radio show now.

Anonymous said...

@ anon...."Mama Grizzly had her own radio show now".....OMG...it's too early to be laughing this hard. If she did have a show her base would be very tiny and overwhelmingly uninformed.

dd

OhioJOE said...

Yes, we already know that Romneyites are very uninformed. Ther illustrate that time after time after time. Next....

Anonymous said...

@OJ...the way I see it..Romney is well educated and well informed, as is his base. Palin is uneducated and uninformed, as is her tiny base.

Romney 2012!

dd

Anonymous said...

dd,

I am just wondering. Are you really a Romney supporter? I never saw you around here until the Trig Truthers loons started showing up. I know you are a Trig Truther. Are you just pretending to be a Romney supporter so you will get cover from the other Romney supporters while you continue to bash everything about Palin and her supporters? You have the same arrogant condescending attitude that General Pablo has.

A.J.R.

Ellie said...

OJ. thought you might like this. You can thank me later. Information is bear, wouldn't you say?

http://www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/gop-nomination-poll-palin-romney-huckabee-gingrich/1314/

Anonymous said...

@OJ...do you learn the art of conspiracy theories from Beck? I have been a Romney supporter since 2008. I do admit that I have been anti Palin since the day she stepped onto the stage with McCain and caused McCain to lose my vote.

Not that long ago a FB ghost written hate speech from Palin would have generated headlines and been treated as a news event in and of it self. Instead, last week it was mostly crickets as Palin’s FB screed barely drew a passing glance from the Beltway press or the larger political arena.


Seems the mainstream media has finally caught on to the fact that reporting her every Facebook post and Twitter feed is not news. And that there's absolutely no reason to be repeating what amounts to press releases for a half-term governor and failed vice-presidential candidate.


I am confident Romney will choose a running mate who will not lose my vote..or any other conservative's vote.

dd

Anonymous said...

General Pablo,

I wrote a tune for your Great Army. Use it as a Battle Hymn during the Grand Crusade. You can call it Reasonable Conservative's Hymn:

"From the Halls of Fox News to the shores of Rush Limbaugh's studio; We will fight General Pablo's battles in blog posts, talk radio calls and petitions; First to fight for GOP Purges and the vision of the Great Frum; We are proud to claim the title of Reasonable Conservative."

I still have to write the rest of the Hymn but what do you think so far?

A.J.R.

OhioJOE said...

That education has not done you any good Ellie.

Anonymous said...

AJR...keep your day job. I respect pablo's opinions on all his post,and i dont agree with all he says but if you disagree with him, you disagree with him in a way that your not being disrespectful.

Anonymous said...

dd,

What did Palin do the day she stepped on the stage with McCain that caused you to not vote for him? Breathe?

A.J.R.

OhioJOE said...

"First to fight for GOP Purges and the vision of the Great Frum;" the truth is that is more than just a song. That is the reality for some.

Anonymous said...

Anon,

I guess you didn't like my song. oh well!!! It's funny though, when people disagree with Pablo they are talked down to, called idiots, crazy, ignorant, etc., etc., etc. Pablo also routinely insults anyone who he disagrees with in his posts. I'm sure you disapprove of that. Isn't that disrespectful to people who disagree or have a different opinion than he does?

A.J.R.

OhioJOE said...

"you disagree with him in a way that your not being disrespectful." Hahaha, now that is rich. Romneyites give lessons on how to be respectful. It is a little late for that.

OhioJOE said...

BTW AJR, just for the record, don't count on any respect, after all Generalisimo has declared WAR. The phase of carpet bombing is almost complete. He is looking for Ground Troops now.

Anonymous said...

typical mama grizzly supporters....check palin twitter and see what she wants you to do today.

Anonymous said...

Anon...as a woman, I was offended by her snark. I continue to be offended by her 24/7 hate rhetoric. I really do not know what she stands for other than her hate for Obama. I think we can all agree that none of the conservative potential candidates like Obama, however, I do not hear any of them spewing Obama hate 24/7. I do hear Romney speaking about his feelings for Obama, but never in a hateful snarky way.

She is not now, has never been and will never be presidential material. She lacks class, Romney has class.

dd

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:51,

If you thought I was disrespectful with my song, you should read my comments on this post:

http://www.rightspeak.net/2011/04/i-agree-with-morris-its-time-for-war.html

A.J.R.

OhioJOE said...

"I really do not know what she stands for other than her hate for Obama." I guess your education has done you as much good as Ellie's. Time to get head out of sand and read a bit.

BOSMAN said...

Where was Rush Limbo during the 2008 GOP primaries?

Working for Democrats?

I remember rather than backing a Republican, he spent ALL HIS TIME, turning people off to McCain and telling everyone how bad he was.

I disliked McCain INTENSELY as well. But then again, I didn't have a platform to spew my beliefs to 15 million listeners.

Many people sat out the 08 elections. I sucked it in and went and voted for McCain.

I wonder how many Limbough listeners stayed home?

Anonymous said...

AJR...I read it...thought it was funny... but i agree with you on one thing that pablo and others fail to see. Why they hate fox or rush and declare war blah blah but your right about if they support romney and romney were to get the gop nomination, Fox, rush,hannity,even beck, etc would be the only friends he has in the media, because msnbc, cnn, cbs etc, would all be for obama. Good point. I love fox news!! lol

Anonymous said...

@OJ...I do read, however, I do not limit my reading to C4P or any other right wing fringe group where facts are not required. I do hope Palin runs, just to see how Romney kicks her butt. I think we all know that even Palin knows she doesn't stand even a slim chance against Mr. Romney.

DD

Anonymous said...

WHY ALL THE SNARK DIRECTED AT PABLO??

I just don't get it, OJ and AJR. Pablo is entitled to his opinion, as are you. But he is always respectful, and never personally insults other commenters. Even when he is critical of Palin or Huck, he does so without rudeness.

I realize you don't like what he has to offer, but would you at least try to have a civil debate, rather than just going off on him all the time?

You are both just waaay over the top in your disdain for Pablo.

-Martha

OhioJOE said...

"But he is always respectful,"
Haha, Okaaaaaay!


BTW DD, your reading is limited to the Daily KOS, how else did you get so silly and hate filled?

Anonymous said...

Pablo does have a very condescending attitude towards those who disagree with him, Martha.

For the record, Rush has been involved in politics for long enough that he cannot be discounted. I do not always agree with him, nor do I believe that he is always right, but to discount him because of personal likes or dislikes is foolishness. Experience has taught him things that all of the books in the world cannot.

AZ

Anonymous said...

Only liberals and their useful idiots believe that reducing government spending, lower taxes, and enforcing immigration laws constitutes extremism. If that's Tea Party extremism, I hope that we have more extremism. Part of why I support Mr. Romney is that I believe he will be most effective at bringing us that kind of extremism.

Anonymous said...

Martha,

I don't have disdain for Pablo. I just think he has an arrogant condescending attitude toward anyone who disagrees with him. In post after post he puts down people who disagree with him.

I'm sure that Pablo is a nice guy in person but he thinks of me and others who listen to talk radio as dopes, racists, neanderthals, crazy, idiots, ignorant fools, etc., etc., etc. These are all things he has said in his posts.

I thought the stuff I wrote was pretty funny. I'm sure you don't think so because he never puts you down when he posts. I also never personally insulted him. I just made fun of his War Against Talk Radio and Fox News but if it bothers you I will stop.

You have to admit that the song was kinda funny?

A.J.R.

Anonymous said...

Ditto to MWS' comment.

Why oh why did Ellie have to clone herself in the form of dd? DD/Ellie is ruining thread after thread. Just like Craig4Huck does at Race. Seriously, I almost don't want to wade through the comment sections of many of these threads because Ellie/dd will be spamming her hate. On the flip side, OJ is doing his darndest to immitate TEX. But I can still handle his irrational rants a lot easier than Ellie. At least OJ makes me chuckle some times.

Anonymous said...

AJR, while I disagree with your song, I'll give you credit for being clever.

OhioJOE said...

Yes, it was very entertaining AJR. It is also entertaining that the Generalisimo and his friends think that talk radio is the biggest problem in America.

For the Generalismo it is a non-starter to defund PP, it is a non-starter to defund NPR, it is a non-starter to defund ObamaCare, it is a non-starter to get rid of the EPA and the Department of Education, it is a non-starter to to stop bailing out banks, it is a non-starter to get rid of free market distortion.

Well Senior Pablisimo, you are not the only one with non-starters. If the like of you get near the levers of power of the party, the GOP will be a NON-STARTER!

Anonymous said...

We need to unite if we are to unseat obama. I say we all meet up for tea.

Anonymous said...

AJR - Yes, your song was creative. :-)

I just don't see Pablo's condescension at all. He has an opinion, and thinks more deeply about each issue than some. He is a straight shooter, and I DO NOT think he means to insult anyone here or make them feel stupid.

Rush isn't that relevant anymore. He once was, but now more people see him for what he is. The thing that bothers me the most about him is the lack of intellectual honesty. He picks and chooses 'facts' to suit his particular point.

The balance has tipped, and I now believe he does more harm than good. I really want to see people like him marginalized, because they are hurting the conservative movement.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

OJ, you are getting really bad about misrepresenting what some of us believe around here. Don't put words in our mouths.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

I've got an idea for a new shoe. 'OJ Says the Darndest Things'

Take this for example, "It is also entertaining that the Generalisimo and his friends think that talk radio is the biggest problem in America."

Not even close OJ. But it is a big problem that needs to be dealt with by the right if the right wants to have any credibility with the rest of the nation. And there aren't any where close to enough listeners of talk radio to win any national elections. The right needs the middle if they want to win.

OhioJOE said...

"At least OJ makes me chuckle some times." I guess we are even, I confess I find your rants again all thing Fox, a little entertaining at times.

Anonymous said...

Martha,

I'm curious. Why exactly did you stop listening to Rush? Was it something specific he said/did that you didn't like? I saw in another thread that you said that you listened to Rush for over 15 years and I was wondering why you stopped.

A.J.R.

OhioJOE said...

"He picks and chooses 'facts' to suit his particular point." So, he should chose facts that do not suit his particular view??? Is that what the rest of us do?


" And there aren't any where close to enough listeners of talk radio to win any national elections. The right needs the middle if they want to win. " On the surface, you are right, talk radio listeners are a minority, but NPR listeners and KOS readers are also a minority. The Right needs some of the the middle to be sure, but, it does not need as much middle as the Left does.

Anonymous said...

I don't know who Ellie is, but I'm sure we would enjoy each other's company.

dd

OhioJOE said...

AJR, I suspect that Martha and company are bitter against Mr. Limbaugh because he no longer supports Mr. Romney. It is easier to blame talk radio for one's problem than to look in the miror and ask why so many Talk Radio Hosts who supported Mr. Romney in 2008 no longer do so.

Ellie said...

dd, if you get to the intermountain west, you can come to one of our luncheons!

Dan, we are two different folks. You might want to verify that with Bosman. I suspect we don't even live in the same state.

Anonymous said...

AJR, I detested McCain prior to his winning the nomination in 2008. I was with Limbaugh and everyone else in talk radio who were trying to stop him. But 2008 fully vetted talk radio as the irrelevant, imbecilic, demagogues that they are. I stopped listening to talk radio after that. And I voted for McCain in the general and donated money to his campaign.

I kept watching Fox for another year, but then cancelled my cable and have been much happier not listening to their distortions and mistruths.

Anonymous said...

Methinks the unladylike lady doth protest too much.

Anonymous said...

Ellie, bold assertions from an anonymous pseudonym(s) from the safety of your internet hideout. You two right exactly the same and express the same hatred with the same idiosyncrasies. I suppose that there is a 2% chance that there really are two people in the world who have virtually identical neural pathways.

ellie said...

Dan, let's ask bosman. He's got the TWO IP address. No way we can be the same. I've never met DD, have no idea where she is from. The only way I know she's a she, is because she said so!

Verdict, Bosman?

Right Wingnut said...

I'd like to know how Bos can see IP adresses. I can't see them on my blog. Maybe I'm missing something.

Anonymous said...

It's a hollow challenge. Of course Bosman isn't going to disclose that sort of information. Especially not after Ellie flipped out over someone claiming to have seen her picture on Facebook. All she has to do is scream about privacy to kill this.

Anonymous said...

I'm not saying that Ellie and dd are the same person but if they are, all Ellie/dd has to do it type in from two different computers/iPad,/Smart Phone and then there is two different IP addresses (one for Ellie and one for dd).

A.J.R.

Anonymous said...

Dan, Bosman on at least one occasion did tell us about someone's IP address, and if I'm not mistaken it was because some people were accusing Ellie of being more than one person. She was vindicated.

I don't think there's any reason why he wouldn't do it today.

How about it, Bosman?

RW - of course, he can see them.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

OJ, Rush is sort of the kiss of death, so I don't really care who he supports in 2012.

AJR, I stopped listening to Rush after about 6 months of listening to him slobber over Palin. No new info about her can dissuade him--he's hopelessly in love. He has the largest blind spot where she is concerned, and it opened my eyes to his utter lack of seriousness in supporting qualified people to lead. When I started looking at Rush with new eyes, I saw a lot of things I had been missing over the years.

-Martha

Revolution 2012 said...

RWN,

Bosman does have software running on this blog that gives IP addresses. If you want it on your site, you'd have to inquire about it.

It's an add-on.

Anonymous said...

@Ellie,
I would love to join you at one of your meetings, however, I live in sunny Florida. Me thinks your meeting is a bit too far for me to drive. I do enjoy the fact that we ladies have confused these simpleton men. I also appreciate the fact that you see Palin for what she really is... a con artist.

Romney 2012!

dd

Anonymous said...

Whoo hoo. I love it when people see through Palin. She is a huge con artist. A farce, a fake. Yeah yeah, I know the whole bit about her 'authenticity'. The trouble is that she has never been authentically qualified. She's NOT the rill dill. (couldn't resist)

She is an average person who conned her way into the governorship, and VP. She has NEVER had any substance to her at all. She doesn't write or think on her own, and she has no business thinking she can be leader of the free world.

She is where she is due strictly to her ability to play up a persona. It works for a while, but eventually she gets found out. It's happening right now. The slow take a little longer to realize they've been conned.

-Martha

Anonymous said...

Martha...have you noticed that approx 85% of Palin supporters are men? Women are way too smart to get sucked into Palin's con job. As many of us have have said for the past 2-1/2 years...Palin will say or do anything if the price is right. Sarah doesnt want to have substance...she prefers money.


Romney 2012!
dd

Anonymous said...

Yes, I've noticed. From the day she was announced, we've seen the old geezers in the GOP go nuts. They can't seem to think straight where Palin is concerned. They just couldn't get over that she can shoot and swear up a storm. She's HOT!

-Martha

Anonymous said...

Martha, the ladies in my circle refer to the old geezers as panty sniffers.

DD

ellie said...

DD. LOL. We're a bit 'nicer' this side of the mason dixion!