PPP came out with a poll yesterday that at first glance, may give Palin supporters who have been down lately, reason to celebrate. These were the results:
Palin winning: Maine, West Virginia, Texas, and Wisconsin. Although, not by much.Something didn't look right here. Examining the cross tabs, I found something VERY INTERESTING. It seems that Palin is the favorite of many LIBERALS and DEMOCRATS in these states.
Romney winning Florida
Pawlenty winning Minnesota.
Hmmm! I wonder why? Do you think they want Republicans to put the strongest candidate against Obama? HaHaHaHa! That's got to be it!!!
All the following figures are Percentiles: (%)
In Maine:
Liberal Vote Democratic votes
Palin 29 23
Romney 21 18
Gingrich - 14
Huckabee 4 16
In Texas:
Liberal Vote Democratic votes
Palin 41 12
Romney - 9
Gingrich - 9
Huckabee 48 57
In West Virginia:
Liberal Vote Democratic votes
Palin 36 20
Romney 3 14
Gingrich 7 17
Huckabee 17 22
in Wisconsin:
Liberal Vote Democratic votes
Palin 26 -
Romney - 41
Gingrich 7 14
Huckabee 3 14
Now I'm not trying to prove a conspiracy here. I'm just pointing out figures that don't make sense. Then I thought to myself, That if I were ever asked the following question, What would my answer be:
If the Democratic candidates for President inAfter much thought, and wanting the Democrats to put forth their strongest candidate (he! he! he!) I would choose, Nancy Pelosi.
2012 were Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi
Who would you vote for?
HERE are the Cross Tabs, see what you can find.
Bosman, this argument is kinda...weak. I understand the concept of the argument but unfortunately it doesn't really help your guy. So usually Romney gets the Liberal and Democrat votes? Is that because they believe him to be the easiest to beat...or is it because that's the guy truest to their own belief system? This post is a double edged sword...so I wouldn't be too proud of the findings!
ReplyDeleteJR
Not to mention...even with those higher numbers...it's kind of just statistical noise that would have little difference in the outcome...if any.
ReplyDeleteJR
Now...the other day when Romney did well...I congratulated him and his supporters...where's the common courtesy on the Romney side?
ReplyDeleteJR
For starters, there is selective data being date about this small group of voters. It is not mentioned that Mr. Romney get 46% of Liberals in Florida (only 25% of Conservatives) and 20% of MN Liberals (more than any other candidate.) The bottom line in that more Conservatives than Liberals are going to vote in the GOP primary. So far, Mr. Romney is not doing well among Conservatives and his continued warfare against the Tea Party is not going to help him a whole lot in that department.
ReplyDeleteOHIO JOE
Bos,
ReplyDeleteTake a trip over to C4P. Hang out for awhile ang get to know the folks. You'd be shocked at how many Dems and recent Dems reside there. Rebecca Monsour, a C4P founder who now works for Palin, was herself a Hilary Clinton supporter.
In addition take a trip over to Hillbuzz.org. They're a group of gay activists from Chicago who will do everything in their power to help Palin get elected. As you can tell from the banner at the top of their page, it's a site originally developed to support Hilary Clinton. They've pledge their support to Palin in 2012 whether Hilary runs or not.
In head to head matchups with Obama, I've noticed that Palin consistently draws as many, if not more Democrats to her side as compared to Romney, Huck or Gingrich. Perhaps you've missed that. I suspect these are disaffected Hilary supporters.
And last but not least, I suspect the sample of Libs and Dems in these polls is microscopic. The margin for error among this segment must be huge, but if they are Dems crossing over to vote in a GOP primary, there's a good chance that many of the respondents are crossing over BECAUSE of Palin--because the dirtly little secret is that her potential appeal is B-R-O-A-D. The cat is about to be let out the bag. Write it down.
Haha Jersey, I for won do not expect any congradulations from the other side, they won most of the state that they were suppose to and so far we are winning our states. Next week might break the tie.
ReplyDeleteI just think it is funny that they have to spin in by saying that our camp is winning on the backs of Liberal Democrats. I though we were suppose to be Right Wing extremists. My head is spinning from all the spin.
OHIO JOE
RW, if the liberal/democrat portion of the most recent PPP polls are suspect then the only fair thing is to take away all of the liberal/democrat votes from all PPP polls...what do you know...Palin wins Florida now.
ReplyDeleteJR
That last one was meant for OJ as well. How are you doing old Palin friend? I'm glad we both found RS...I already like it more than I like ROS...I swore never to post there again but I do find myself writing some anonymous posts.
ReplyDeleteJR
JR, Correct. There are many ways to shoot holes in this analysis.
ReplyDeleteAlso, why didn't the PPP polls from two days ago show the same dynamic? How does that fit into your conspiracy?
ReplyDeleteRW, it really hurts the Romney supporters narrative when Palin wins in Maine. If she can win in Maine...she might force Romney to spend more time and money in NH...which they thought was his sure thing. I've been saying all along that Palin can play in NH, it will not be as easy, for Romney, as his supporters think...even though he will still most likely win.
ReplyDeleteBut think of it this way...if Huckabee or Palin wins Iowa and then Palin squeaks by and wins NH...Romney wins Nevada, Palin or Huckabee wins SC...it will not look good for Romney. Of course this is only conjecture and at this point we must assume Romney takes NH pretty easily.
JR
Absent a campaign, I wouldn't assume anything in NH at this point. Remember, Pat Buchanan of all people won there.
ReplyDeleteAnd the they we Rombots are overly sensitive...wow.
ReplyDeleteThe PPP polls are indeed good news for Palin, but they do hold some caveats, namely the sampling sizes and the MOE - and that goes for Romney's results as well. In fact all entire group of 18 polls when they are eventually relased, should be looked at with a little more skeptism than their regurlar polls.
I think Bos is just having a little Friday fun, at Palin's expense. You guys need to lighten up a little. It's that "fervent, unable to view Palin objectively" mindset which provokes some folks.
Have a great weekend.
Doug, c'mon now. It;s all fun at this point...we all realize this, but Bosman made a point of not commenting on yesterday's numbers due to the date he has come across. I think he was taking this very seriously...but either way...it's only a few polls and we're NO harsher than any one Romney supporter on this site and ROS.
ReplyDeleteJR
"I think Bos is just having a little Friday fun, at Palin's expense." Haha, I think that is probably right, I disagree with the gentleman, but in the end he is not exactly stupid, so I suspect he can figure out too that outright Liberals (I do not include Moderates here) will be a rather small per centage of Republican voters. And for the record, while most state polls are somewhere in the ballpark, even as a Palinite, I have my doubt as to Mr. Romney doing so poor in IL, IG won't allow.
ReplyDeleteGood to see you hear Jersey, let me guess, you got banned from the old site for quoting a poll (you would certainly not be the only one.) Speaking of polls, I am excited that they will poll my state next week. I know we lost last time, but that was a one off like Illinois was the other way. In all seriousness, I'll be content to get within the margin of error, after the sample sizes of such polls give limited information especially when it comes to cross tabulations.
OHIO JOE
Bot, what a fuss.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Bosman about being asked a question about who do you think the Democrats best choice in 2012 is.
Could I mount a write in candidacy campaign for, Alan Grayson?
Bos, this is one of your best posts and why I started following you in the blogs.
This is funny, and it makes so much sense.
zeke
"Mr. Romney is not doing well among Conservatives and his continued warfare against the Tea Party is not going to help him a whole lot in that department"
ReplyDeleteOJ, did you not see that Romney still leads amongst conservatives when you both average and weight the average for all of the PPP polls. What has Mitt done to wage war on the T party? He has been very supportive of it, and in the latest PEW poll it shows more tea Party supporters belong to Romney than Palin.
Hey, what's with this story? Is this true?
ReplyDeleteGlenn Beck spent the past week denouncing the liberal billionaire and philanthropist George Soros as a "puppet master" who is orchestrating a coup "to bring America to her knees."
Given Soros' alleged role plotting to destroy the United States, Beck and his Fox viewership might be surprised to learn that one of Sarah Palin's top aides has been on Soros' payroll for years.
That would be Republican lobbyist Randy Scheunemann, Palin's foreign policy adviser and a member of her small inner circle. He runs a Washington, D.C., consulting firm called Orion Strategies. Scheunemann and a partner have since 2003 been paid over $150,000 by one of Soros' organizations for lobbying work, according to federal disclosure forms reviewed by Salon. The lobbying, which has continued to the present, centers on legislation involving sanctions and democracy promotion in Burma.
IG,
ReplyDeleteIf Palin has a Sorros backed member of her inner circle, it's no wonder the DEMS & LIBS love her.
She can't be that naive, can she?
zeke
There doesn't seem to be any IF about it!. He's her foreign policy advisor.
ReplyDeleteTHIS is BIG NEWS!
ReplyDeleteA Sorros advisor. How does she tweet her way out of this one?
"A Sorros advisor. How does she tweet her way out of this one?" Very simple, probably the only Republican (other than Mr. Reagan himself) that does not have a Sorrosite or a one worlder as one of there foreign policy advisors is Dr. Paul (and maybe Mr. Huckabee.) This loose afiliate of Mr. Sorros certainly does not appear to be pulling Mrs. Palin to the Left on Foreign Policy, unless fighting inflation is a Left Wing policy.
ReplyDelete"and in the latest PEW poll it shows more tea Party supporters belong to Romney than Palin." I am not overly impressed IG, first of all, that very same poll also puts Mr. Romney in 3rd place overall (yes it is in the MOE.) Further Mr. Romney TP number are not any better than his non TP numbers. Yes, I am well aware that the majority of Tea Parties are not Palinites, no one candidate has a majority, but this question is vague with respect. Did they poll TP leaders? Did they poll those who actually go to Tea Parties or did they just poll any joker who says 'oh yeah, I like the Tea Party?'
Arrrrg. That was me.
ReplyDeleteOHIO JOE
This is hilarious!
ReplyDeleteOJ - Don't avoid the question asked of you. Please explain this absurd accusation of yours - "his (Romney)continued warfare against the Tea Party."
ReplyDeleteWe need to keep the laughs going.
THe 'everybody is doing it' logic for having a SOROS associate on her payroll is lame! Does Romney have a SOROS guy on his payroll?
ReplyDeleteOJ, part of the problem with the tea party are the leaders!! When this was truly a grass roots movement, it was fine, but when leaders emerged, they have their own aspirations and agendas and frankly Im surprised OJ, that you value their opinion more than the rank and file.
It's obviously a left wing conspiracy to promote the Republican's weakest candidate.
ReplyDeleteI agree also that if asked to pick the DEMS best candidate, I'd tell them Pelosi.
I want to change my vote. I agree that Alan Grayson would be the best 2012 Democratic candidate.
ReplyDeleteIf the Dems & libs can play hard ball, so can we!
I-Guy, I'm dissapointed in your feeble attempt to give a non-story legs. Be careful. Once we start digging into the client history of advisors to your guy, you might not like what you see. This one only took me 5 seconds to find.
ReplyDeleteInsisting that he is a Washington
outsider, Mitt Romney has been captured on tape arguing with a reporter about whether
a Washington lobbyist named Ron Kaufman runs or just advises his campaign
for president. The more important issue is what Kaufman lobbies for.
It turns out that Kaufman’s firm, as well as another Romney adviser,
Vin Weber, have worked to put more American taxpayer dollars into the
coffers of the corrupt United Nations and other international agencies.
Kaufman’s firm, Dutko Worldwide,
represents and works directly with an organization chaired by Bill Clinton,
the Global Fairness Initiative (GFI), whose board includes AFL-CIO President
John Sweeney and is dedicated to promoting “a more equitable and sustainable
world for all people.” A press release describes
the substantial connections between Dutko and GFI, with a Dutko official
being quoted as saying, “Dutko
Global Advisors is proud to support
the work and mission” of GFI “because its work is fundamentally
about nurturing the virtuous cycle of free and fair trade, the creation
of economic opportunities, and harmonious relations worldwide.” The
group appears to be mostly devoted to pursuing international agreements
or arrangements protecting labor rights and the environment in “fair
trade” deals. This is, of course, a major demand of liberal and union
groups.
Dutko also says it represented
or has “worked with” various “multilateral organizations,” including
the U.N.’s International Labor Organization and World Health Organization,
and endeavors to “educate” the Congress and others about the “globally
respected” work of the U.N. and its agencies. “Many multi-lateral
organizations receive dues allocations from US government, as well as
funds ear-marked for projects and programs important to public policies
pursued by the US government,” Dutko says. The implication is that Dutko can
keep the taxpayer dollars flowing to such causes.
But that’s not all. Romney
adviser and lobbyist Vin Weber, a former congressman and member of the
board of the Council on Foreign Relations, worked for an organization
promoting a U.S. taxpayer financial bailout of the United Nations. This
group, the so-called Emergency Coalition for Financial Support of the
U.N, included the pro-world government World Federalist Association,
National Council of Churches, Catholics for a Free Choice, Americans
for Democratic Action, and the United Nations Association.
The purpose of the Emergency
Coalition for Financial Support of the U.N. was to get the U.S. Congress
to pay a financial “debt” to the world organization. But the “debt”
was phony because the world body never gave the U.S. credit for certain
contributions to U.N. peacekeeping operations that amounted to billions
of dollars above what the U.S. supposedly owed the world body. I wrote
about this issue extensively during the late 1990s. You can read my
Cato Institute report on the subject here.
[...]
Read the whole thing here. You know what they say about throwing stones....
RWN -- Nice try going into the morgue to find these dead tales.
ReplyDeleteA Palin supporter at ROS also tried to spin this with the "Everybody Does It" excuse, by citing this guy worked for Dole, McCain, Bill Kristol etc. That's fine, the political world has an ever shifting talent pool.
I questioned his name dropping tactic, because the figures he was citing to justify Palin's hiring of this guy, are the same people Palin supporters decry as hated RINOs and Neo-Cons.
kind of a little bit of a double standard, No?
Here is part of that argument you eluded to, and who Kaufman is:
ReplyDeleteRon is a wonderful friend and adviser,” Romney said. “He’s not paid — he’s an adviser, like many others. But I do not have lobbyists running my campaign.”
“Glen, I’m appreciative that you think that’s funny,” Romney said. “But Ron Kaufman is not even in on the senior strategy meetings of our campaign.”
Kaufman, a longtime friend of the Romney family, is chairman of the executive committee of Dutko Worldwide, a well-connected lobbying and public affairs firm. He is the Republican National Committeeman for Massachusetts and was White House personnel and political director under President George H.W. Bush.
Doug, Morgue? Kaufman is still a Romney advisor. I haven't checked the rest. If you search for articles on some of these folks, you might not like what you find. I just spent 15 minutes skimming some of them. Any yes, Soros' name pops up from time to time.
ReplyDeleteI really don't want to start a flame war over this (because it's ridiculous), so I won't post my findings at this time.
RWN - I don't want to start a flame war either.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's a particularly big deal. It's just this is a gray-pastel area and we all know Palinista's like to live in a "bold color" world.
I-Guy, Trust me, this is not worth it. Arguing about who's advisor has the most corrupt lobbyist ties is not worth either of our time. Pssst....I'm giving you the opportunity to graciously drop it.
ReplyDeleteRe: Kaufman
From earlier THIS year:
“Like any experiment, this was meant for one thing: Massachusetts. It wasn’t meant for Vermont or Texas, and their systems would not work in Massachusetts,” said Ron Kaufman, a D.C. lobbyist and close adviser to Romney.
Kaufman offered yet another line of argument in defense of RomneyCare. He said it was a necessary step in the process of state experimentation needed to show the federal government what works and what doesn’t.
“We wouldn’t have any kind of welfare reform if governors didn’t experiment in their states,” Kaufman said. “It took five or six governors doing different things to come up with a solution at a national level.”
And Kaufman appealed to Romney’s core capability: his track record as a successful businessman and chief executive.
“As we get closer and closer to 2012, and people are more and more scared of what the future is going to look like for their grand kids, people are going to say, ‘You know what we want in our president? Someone who is really competent to get stuff done,’” Kaufman said
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/04/05/romney-struggles-to-explain-that-romneycare-is-not-obamacare/#ixzz157aykKcO
"OJ - Don't avoid the question asked of you. Please explain this absurd accusation of yours - "his (Romney)continued warfare against the Tea Party."
ReplyDeleteWe need to keep the laughs going. " As for keeping the laugh going, hey whatever floats your boat. His endorsement of people like Mr. Doheny is not exactly a good way to endear himself to the movement. Among other things, his apparent lack of concern for the possibility of inflation does not give him credentials among Tea Partiers. Finally, talking about laugh Doug, if you cannot tell the serious tension between Romneyites and Tea Partiers on the blogoshere, you are either pulling my leg again or you truly do not get it.
"are the same people Palin supporters decry as hated RINOs and Neo-Cons.
kind of a little bit of a double standard, No? " Just because one guy next the Mexican border who claims to be one of my fellow camp members hates Neo-Cons, does not mean that I and most other Palinites hate Neo-Cons also.
"they have their own aspirations and agendas and frankly Im surprised OJ, that you value their opinion more than the rank and file." With respect IG, the aspirations of most Tea Parties is to rid this country of Socialism and prevent this country from sliding towards the status of a Banana Republic. I do value the opinions of the rank and file, but depending on the way the pollster asks the question, any clown can claim to be a Tea Partier. Again, I realize that a majority of Tea Partiers are in deed non-Palinites per se, but the same poll that you guys like to tout also illustrates the majority of Tea Partier are also non-Romneyites.
OHIO JOE
Nobody has ever claimed the majority of tes partiers are Romney fans OJ. You're the one that made the statement. Like I said, Romney has continuously supported them. Has he ever supported a candidate that is not a part of the movement? Certainly...so has Palin and all other potential candidates.
ReplyDeleteOJ - Appreciate the response, but seriously, a few political endorsements that differ with the TP, can hardly be construed as "warefare." I'm sorry but that just isn't cutting it.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the advisor issues goes, not only was I referring to Tex, but check out a majority of the comments at C4P for example. They have harsh words for the exact type of politican who were associated with the advisor Palin now uses. They would villify a McCain or a Dole for being associated with him, but now that Palin is, well, it seems to be ok. That's where the double standard is.
One thing I hope you'll notice about me and in my posts, I try to avoid discussing issues in terms of absolutes. I accept that life, especially political life, has shades of gray. As the Palin movement matures, I am sure they will come to this realization as well.
Romney is a RINO and RomneyCare will be his downfall- thank God! Romney is where he is today because his daddy was a 3-term governor and could afford to pay for mittens political ambitions (just like bush, gore). We are not europe but for some reason a lot of people like to be governed by the aristocracy. Give me the 100% self-made, corruption fighting moose hunter from AK anyday.
ReplyDeletePalin left the governship and that will be her mountain overcome in the primaries. However, once she states why she did it and how the people of AK benefited from her turning power over to sean parnel it will be a non issue. The left's brownshirts were sent to destroy her politically and financially after the 08' election because they know how powerful she is. They launched their attacks via a loophole in a transperancy law specific to AK. If she can overcome that she will come out on top.
The Blaze has a story on the lame Soros "controversy."
ReplyDeleteLame: Liberal Bloggers Link Palin Aide to Soros
How can anyone get excited over romney? Is it because he looks like a president? He is nothing but another george bush with a more presidential looking appearance. Both men are not where they are today because of the struggles that they went thru or their own hard work and perseverance. They are in politics today because their families' wealth and power got them in. They are truly our version of the aristocracy and they can no more relate to the common people then prince william.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, Palin worked tirelessly to become mayor, city council member, oil and gas regulator, chairman of the energy conservation commission, and governor all on her own. Once governor, she single-handedly destroyed the republican/big oil circle jerk going on up there. She earned herself the hatred of both political parties, but a 90% approval rating from the people (at a time when republicans were hated throughout the country). She sold the private jet, fired the private chef, and refused the governor's limo. THAT is what we need in washington- someone who will call out corruption/fat cats/ back room deals no matter which side of the aisle the culprits are on. THAT is why the republican establishment in DC hates her and why someone like me loves her.
Anon at 9:40,
ReplyDeleteVery well stated.
"........Palin worked tirelessly to become mayor, city council member, oil and gas regulator, chairman of the energy conservation commission, and governor all on her own...."
ReplyDeleteYour'e kidding right! She worked HARD? She made her campaign manager, "City Manager", the she sat back and collected her salary.
THAT'S what will come out when she talks about being Mayor of Wasilla.
Get the facts jack!
Your'e kidding right! She worked HARD?--Anon
ReplyDeleteYeah right....no "hard work" involved...she just woke up one day and said...
"look at me! I'm Governor of Alaska! How did that happen?"....
"Look at me! I'm the nominee for Vice President of the United States! How did that happen?"....
"Look at me! I'm a best selling author! How did that happen?"...
"Look at me! Other than the President, I'm the most talked about political figure in the country!" How did that happen?"...
"Look at me! I'm leading in several early polls for the 2012 Republican nomination! How did that happen?"
I was reading some comments on c4p and i saw your comments leading here. i posted at 940 and your post at 1009 was so freakin true. i never log on to c4p but i usually check it out during the day. i met a lot of the people running it in New orleans at the SRLC (adrienne ross, sapwolf and sinstar i think).
ReplyDeleteI never really had a problem with mitt until that conference, when it was so blatantly obvious that romney had dispatched his band of merry followers to vote for him in the straw poll. His supporters were organized, bought and paid for while Palin's supporters were genuine grass roots.
right wingnut was who i was talking to there
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping that Republicans
ReplyDeleteDon't catch on to the fact
That we are looking forward
in 2012
to a Sarah Palin candidacy.
It's always
a good thing
to face an opponent
whom you can identify with.
It's true
that i have never
had a reality show.
I can however
identify
with Sarah Palin's
experience and current popularity.
Palin /Gingrich in 2012!
Barack said...
ReplyDeleteThe libs want romney over palin because if he wins they know he's a lot like them in many ways (soft on abortion, believes big goverment is not such a bad thing, and he isn't from some embarrassing state like AK).
Most of palin's harhest critics know that she would have barry stuttering in the first 5 minutes of a presidential debate. She mopped the floor with a 35 year sitting senator when she was just a 2 year governor in front of 70,000,000 people (with mcrino's TERRIBLE campaign team prepping her). That night at the VP debate biden said 14 things that were completely untrue- Palin never missed a beat.
Believe me when i tell you that she will roll barry up and smoke him in a debate, only this time 100 million + people will be watching...
Romney is obama "lite" in a lot of ways and palin is the direct opposite of the kenyan marixst.
In all my days of blogging I never seen more bull crap than that Anon posting above.
ReplyDeleteIllinoisguy
ReplyDeleteAlthough your harsh description of my post as "bull crap" hurt my feelings possibly beyond repair, would you care to disagree with any of the specifics within it?
Romney is a wind testing rich boy who believes that big government can certainly help the "little people" sometimes(just as bush, rove, mccain do) and his record proves it.
Also, Willard has championed abortion rights or taken a pro-life stance whenever it was politically expedient for him to do so, and who can forget that romneycare gave us the blue print for obamacare?
He is not a conservative at all, but hey, "it's his turn" and he comes from the right social circle so let's vote for him!
Mitt's father lived in a house with dirt floors. He did not attend college. He was a self made man and instilled this in his kids. Mitt worked his own way through college, and was married with children. He has know what it's like to live on tight budgets. He's not nearly as elite as you make him out to be.
ReplyDeleteBesides, since when does a good conservative fault someone for being successful in life. He made everything he has from his own hard work and keen mind. He campaigned last time on fixing Washington. He is not a big government man at all. Palin's budget increased several times faster than Mitt's, so I have no idea what makes you think he is for big government.
He is not the front runner because it is his turn, but because he has worked harder in his level to reach success, and has campaigned harder in 2010 than anyone to build our party. I know this is fruitless because people like you are completely brainwashed and are convinced you know Mitt Romney is somebody else. Therefore, I won't waste any more on your garbage postings.
IG - Very nice response to a gutless worm, who doesn't have the "cajones" to "man up" and put his name to his words. Well Done.
ReplyDeleteWhat a shame this post had to be commandeered by this Soros crap.
ReplyDeleteJR