tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post6170744953751962107..comments2024-03-18T03:18:46.825-04:00Comments on RIGHT SPEAK: A Fun Post-Christmas Activity And A Plea For Rational DiscourseBOSMANhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13613253160155525089noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-70433067393531181222010-12-31T21:00:37.449-05:002010-12-31T21:00:37.449-05:00Happy New Year to you too.Happy New Year to you too.Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06622986304847436893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-67377241507420572542010-12-31T10:24:07.125-05:002010-12-31T10:24:07.125-05:00Pablo, I always have commended you on your ability...Pablo, I always have commended you on your ability to admit when you were either wrong, or could have done better. Most people wouldn't...I try to be that type of person but I ultimately fall short on many occasions. I, personally, am glad you have joined this site and that you contribute in the manner that you do.<br /><br />Open discussions about all the issues, not just the hot button issue of the day, is what will make this site grow in popularity. This site was beginning to look like a pro-Romney, anti-Palin site but your efforts, and the efforts of some of your other colleagues, are beginning to to change that. I look forward to having more, respectful, heated discussions with you in the New Year. If I was at all rude during our conversation then I, wholeheartedly, apologize.<br /><br />Happy New Year,<br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-63248057505208975422010-12-30T21:47:33.477-05:002010-12-30T21:47:33.477-05:00JR,
I don't agree with your perception of Pal...JR,<br /><br />I don't agree with your perception of Palin, but I will try to give her a chance. I have developed a bias against her and I don't want to get to a position where I can't admit when she is right. So I will try to think more rationally about her. <br /><br />I can't promise that I won't write negative things about her in the future, but I do promise to try to give her a chance. When the presidential campaign season roles around, we ought to give all of the candidates a fair shake.Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06622986304847436893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-35621270546983767532010-12-30T14:35:02.524-05:002010-12-30T14:35:02.524-05:00Pablo, again Palin had one bad interview over 2 ye...Pablo, again Palin had one bad interview over 2 years ago...nobody with any brains thinks the Gibson interview was all that bad. Her only problem, in that interview, was the Bush Doctrine question which she actually answered according to what Gibson, himself, defined it as back in 2003. The phrase was coined by Krauthammer, who is quoted as saying, "that according to Gibson's definition...he doesn't even know what the Bush Doctrine is. <br /><br />BUT, I guess I'll have to give it to you...2 interviews. So, I must assume that until she is on either 60 minutes or Meet the Press, then she hasn't done an unfriendly interview? PAY MORE ATTENTION.<br /><br />Also, I think you should research the reasons as to why she resigned as Governor...personal bankruptcy and wasting millions of dollars of Alaska's money came into play...I guess that's not a good enough reason for you?<br /><br />And, once again she talks public policy plenty. She led the fight against ObamaCare, she has had key foreign policy speeches, national defense speeches, she is an energy expert...akin to Romney's expertise in business. I don't know what more you want from her? She is out, on the front lines, fighting everyday for conservative causes.<br /><br />I do agree she has work to do to change public perception but most negative public perception, at this stage, is still superficial. If she runs, let the contested primary and its debates decide if she is a serious candidate.<br /><br />You claim that she deserves a chance and you will give it to her, yet every time you write about her, it seems your mind is made up. It also seems it is made up due to false information. If you really want to give her a chance...then research her career, watch her 2006 gubernatorial debates. I'm pretty sure you haven't even read her op-ed on quantitative easing or even one page of her books.<br /><br />You can't keep an open mind when you close your eyes and cover your ears...<br /><br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-6895767498331122512010-12-30T12:15:11.989-05:002010-12-30T12:15:11.989-05:00"It's apparent you have not taken the tim..."It's apparent you have not taken the time to research Palin's record or even her stances on the issues yet you blindly follow a meme that she is uninformed because she had one bad interview over two years ago and because she resigned as Governor of Alaska."<br /><br />She had two bad interviews over two years ago and hasn't done a real interview since. Then when the times got tough, she resigned after two and a half years as governor of Alaska. Is Palin an effective leader? Well, we don't know, because we have only briefly seen her in action. Does Palin understand or care about public policy? Well we don't know because she rarely talks public policy and she rarely does tough interviews. <br /><br />One thing is for sure OJ and JR. Palin does deserve a chance and so I will give it to her. But I want to see her go beyond reality superstar to a serious candidate who cares deeply about public policy. Right now, she is very good at staying in the spotlight, but can she come up with the tough and difficult solutions to the problems we face? We will see. <br /><br />And I know that you are tired of this complaint against Palin, but it isn't going away. Palin must overcome it, just like Romney must overcome his health care policies. If Palin wants to overcome it, she should stop blaming the media for everything and go see Katie Couric again. And anyone else who wants to ask her a question.Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06622986304847436893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-89936708460936113502010-12-30T09:47:36.715-05:002010-12-30T09:47:36.715-05:00"yet you fail to consider the notion that may..."yet you fail to consider the notion that maybe Palin supporters aren't just blindly following a personality...maybe they are thoughtfully supporting a person who they believe in based on Sarah Palin's beliefs, her proven successes and for her vision of, and for, America?" Again, well said Jersey. Shhhhhh, here is the secret: If you want Palinites to consider supporting somebody other than Mrs. Palin, provide a reasonable alternative.<br /><br /><br />OHIO JOEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-12389986894474954352010-12-30T09:22:49.706-05:002010-12-30T09:22:49.706-05:00Pablo, as promised.
Listen, I'm half-hearted...Pablo, as promised. <br /><br />Listen, I'm half-heartedly rewriting this comment because, quite frankly, I am tired of this argument...I am tired of having this discussion.<br /><br />So to keep it brief.<br /><br />I would not agree that saying, "Palin appears to be inexperienced or misinformed is a fair criticism." <br /><br />Honestly, the people who say that are not paying attention...nor do they care to. I believe that the people who go to such great lengths to demean Sarah Palin, a person who did nothing but agree to be on a Presidential ticket and fight hard for that ticket, are either political opponents or are people who believe the twisted stories about her since she first agreed to be on the national stage. <br /><br />In the past I have challenged you to watch her 2006 Alaskan debates and to follow the many successes she had while serving as Governor...have you? Did you know she fulfilled every campaign promise she promised the Alaskan people in the 2 and 1/2 years she served as their Governor...that alone must impress you? <br /><br />You believe, "rational discourse = thinking for oneself and not blindly following a personality," yet you fail to consider the notion that maybe Palin supporters aren't just blindly following a personality...maybe they are thoughtfully supporting a person who they believe in based on Sarah Palin's beliefs, her proven successes and for her vision of, and for, America?<br /><br />It's apparent you have not taken the time to research Palin's record or even her stances on the issues yet you blindly follow a meme that she is uninformed because she had one bad interview over two years ago and because she resigned as Governor of Alaska. <br /><br />Where's your "rational discourse?"<br /><br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-67684432410725899862010-12-29T16:07:02.560-05:002010-12-29T16:07:02.560-05:00Damn! I just wrote a long response to you Pablo bu...Damn! I just wrote a long response to you Pablo but it didn't post and was erased. I just spent about 10 or 15 minutes drafting it...check back later and I'll rewrite it.<br /><br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-23764982270651852652010-12-29T16:03:09.938-05:002010-12-29T16:03:09.938-05:00Pablo, first how can you compare the comments made...Pablo, first how can you compare the comments made on a site like this or ROS or Race to c4p? RS, ROS and Race are designed to promote Republican candidates, C4P is in existence to promote Sarah Palin. There's no comparison. Compare it to Huck's Army or MRC or some other site designed for one specific candidate.<br /><br />Please don't mince my words...I did not say that ONLY the Republican leaders made her bed for her...it was primarily led by the Left Wing of the Democrat Party and the activist MSM. I would be the first to admit that some of Palin's early gaffes caused a domino effect for her in negatives, even though I could also argue that only the Couric interview did Palin actually mess up bad and even there I buy Palin's part of the story, but she definitely could have done a better job. Her detractors were trying to tear Palin apart way before those interviews. I'm sure you remember the multitude of stories that claimed she wasn't her Down Syndromes son's mother, or that she tried to ban certain library books...etc.<br /><br />You claim she doesn't care about public policy yet she has been in the forefront, of the opposition, of Obama's agenda since day one. She has written multiple op-eds that have received critical acclaim, she was a speaker on foreign policy at a major Hong Kong event where she stood up, very Presidential, and spoke to the people of China about the goodness of the United States and the problems in the eastern markets. If you really would care enough to be more informed...which you seem like you do...you would research her a little more. Trust me it will be difficult...there is a lot of nonsense you have to wade through to get to the truth...here's a hint...if the site says something absolutely ridiculous about Palin...then it probably isn't true...like how she doesn't know that Africa is a continent. Also she is an energy expert...or at least as much of an expert as any politician is on any one subject...probably akin to Romney being an expert in business.<br /><br />I aso agree that her resignation as Governor of Alaska didn't help and part of me wishes she would have fought more just so they didn't get the satisfaction of being able to call her a quitter but if you honestly look at what was happening on the ground, in Alaska, nobody should blame her for getting out of the way of the onslaught of bullets. She had millions of dollars of lawsuits against her that would have personally bankrupted her and cost the state of Alaska millions of dollars and thousands of hours of wasted time and resources. And for what...because she had the nerve to accept the VP slot against Obama.<br /><br />I will agree that she has a perception about her that will be hard to break but I would like to think that Republicans...members of her own team would be honest and decent enough to look past the silly rumors and opinions and find the truth.<br /><br />Are you capable of that?<br /><br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-36774295662025172082010-12-29T15:44:13.650-05:002010-12-29T15:44:13.650-05:00I am also sorry if was harsh. I guess it was good...I am also sorry if was harsh. I guess it was good that my first comment was eaten up because even though I disagree with you often, I certainly do not think you are stupid.<br /><br />OHIO JOEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-32243146412520019042010-12-29T15:37:38.150-05:002010-12-29T15:37:38.150-05:00OJ,
I apologize if I have come across like that ...OJ, <br /><br />I apologize if I have come across like that to you. I honestly can say that I genuinely respect you and JR and RW. That is one of the great things about this site is that there is room for me and you. Please keep up the good work. There needs to be a counterbalance to me if we are going to have genunine debate.Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06622986304847436893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-7817515404418405262010-12-29T15:35:05.671-05:002010-12-29T15:35:05.671-05:00Jersey,
Again, my definition of rational discour...Jersey, <br /><br />Again, my definition of rational discourse=<br /><br />Rational discourse = thinking for oneself and not blindly following a personality<br /><br />There is a lot of that going on on all camps, but it appears to me that there is a lot more going on at C4Palin. Palin has a much stronger following than any other person out there. Yet, there is a huge gulf between what her supporters think of her and what the general population thinks of her. This is a huge problem for the conservative movement. <br /><br />As to your comment about whether Palin made her bed or the Republican leaders made it for her. Palin's problems started with the interviews during the presidential election and continued when she quit her job and refused live interviews for nearly two years. 'Refudiate' was just icing on the cake. It was not the cause. In fact, I rushed to her defense on the North Korea flap. That was clearly a slip of the tongue. But don't act like Palin is the victim here. She is not. She doesn't seem to care about public policy, because she rarely speaks about it. <br /><br />Would you not agree that to say that Palin appears to be inexperience and misinformed is not a fair criticism?Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06622986304847436893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-64598951996200945962010-12-29T15:33:08.156-05:002010-12-29T15:33:08.156-05:00Well said OJ!!! I for one know for a fact that I a...Well said OJ!!! I for one know for a fact that I am smarter and more honest than a lot of the commenters on this site...mainly a good portion of the Romney supporters but go right ahead and attack my intelligence or my supposed inability to think for myself. You see what these drones(not you Pablo...for the most part you seem to be a good dude) don't seem to realize is that I have thought for myself and that is what lead me away from Romney and I am probably more of an independent Republican or moderate Republican than most Romney supporters are.<br /><br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-89359377738976527422010-12-29T15:28:12.283-05:002010-12-29T15:28:12.283-05:00OJ, and that's one of the problems. The other ...OJ, and that's one of the problems. The other camps are so dishonest that even when she does an unquestionable, good job...in their intellectually-dishonest minds she didn't write that speech or that op-ed or that book...she couldn't have because she is dumb. IT IS SO BORING!!! They say they will start taking her seriously when she starts doing real interviews on unfriendly networks...other than FOX. When she does these interviews...they act like it never happened and continue to say they will start taking her seriously when she starts doing more unfriendly interviews. She will never win in their minds.<br /><br />Will she run...I hope so, in fact, I believe she has to if she wants to continue to have a career in politics...either as a pundit and activist or as a politician. Hopefully, for them, that they have watched her 2006 debates and paid attention to her campaigning because they will not know what's coming when and if she decides to run.<br /><br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-22451344225633024212010-12-29T15:26:24.533-05:002010-12-29T15:26:24.533-05:00My original comment were eaten, so I just comment ...My original comment were eaten, so I just comment on the last post.<br /><br />"You see, with Romney supporters it is rational discourse to call Palin dumb and her supporters blind followers." Well said Jersey,<br /><br />I'll be blunt Pablo, I could be wrong because I cannot read your mind or your heart, but you strike me as somebody (much more than most Romneyites) to look down on Palinites as stupid jokers. For the record, there are a few characters in our camp that are not the smartest bulbs in the package (you guys have a few too.) To make a long story short. It is interesting that you take offence when you think your intelligence is questioned, but you see no problem suggesting that our camp leader and our camp members are all nuts. I admit that I nor most of my fellow camp members are not rocket scientist, but let's just say we are not nearly as nutty as your mind thinks we are.<br /><br /><br />OHIO JOEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-2998198080143705402010-12-29T15:19:05.325-05:002010-12-29T15:19:05.325-05:00Pablo, per your response to OJ...can you tell me t...Pablo, per your response to OJ...can you tell me that Palin would have the same kind of negatives if Republicans, politicians and supporters of potential candidates, didn't go around spouting left wing anti-Palin talking points? Honestly? BUT, it is what it is and that's why it will be that much harder for her to win the nomination and the general but don't act like she is the cause of her problems. For instance...the word refudiate. Perhaps she typed the wrong letter, perhaps she just had a brain fart...is that really enough to say that she is stupid? What about the North Korea ally slip. Is that enough to garner the attention it received? How about when Obama said there were 57 states...am I to believe he actually thinks there are 57 states and he's stupid? This neverending quest to paint Palin as dumb is getting really old and really tired and the only reason it is occurring is because the Libs fear her and the establishment Republicans have seen what she has done to corrupt politicians in Alaska. If you cannot see this as one of the biggest efforts, by the MSM and the Dems and members of our own party, to bring down a political figure in the history of our republic...then you my friend are not paying attention. You don't have to agree with Palin, but you at least have to acknowledge it is going on.<br /><br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-27582728658289157342010-12-29T15:09:01.421-05:002010-12-29T15:09:01.421-05:00Pablo, your plea for rational discourse includes y...Pablo, your plea for rational discourse includes your opinion that Palin supporters are blind followers? That is so utterly ridiculous and IG proves my point in this post. You see, with Romney supporters it is rational discourse to call Palin dumb and her supporters blind followers. Because in their mind it is true. In my mind MassCare is not conservative and some ways it is unAmerican...that's my opinion...is it rational discourse under your definition?<br /><br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-75123040326846329392010-12-29T14:44:25.819-05:002010-12-29T14:44:25.819-05:00"Yes, Jersey it does not take a whole lot of ..."Yes, Jersey it does not take a whole lot of brains to be an anti-Palinite, just go to Huffington or KOS and write their talking points. It gets old fast."<br /><br />Wrong, wrong, wrong. Look at the polls. If you think that the only people who have a problem with Palin are left-wing progressives then you have a sad inability to read polls. There are serious charges to be made against a Palin candidacy and those charges are not left-wing talking points. If you expect me to criticize Romney (which I freqently do) then don't say that any criticism of Palin are leftists talking points.Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06622986304847436893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-24356335917638400042010-12-29T14:41:41.170-05:002010-12-29T14:41:41.170-05:00Jersey,
I don't think that you understand my ...Jersey,<br /><br />I don't think that you understand my plea for rational discourse. I am not saying that we can't have opinions. What I am saying is that we ought not to get our marching orders from any one person. The criticism that you just attached to Romney is a criticism that I have been stating for some time now. Let me repeat it again. <br /><br />Romneycare = Obamacare - the federal government. And Romneycare will be a huge burden on Romney in the next two years. <br /><br />You say that I get my marching orders from Frum. Yes, I respect him greatly, but I often disagree with him and I have posted my disagreements for everyone to see. <br /><br />That is what I am talking about. I am going to think for myself. I am not going to allow someone else to think for me.Pablohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06622986304847436893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-2003971391274444282010-12-29T14:02:09.017-05:002010-12-29T14:02:09.017-05:00Yes, Jersey it does not take a whole lot of brains...Yes, Jersey it does not take a whole lot of brains to be an anti-Palinite, just go to Huffington or KOS and write their talking points. It gets old fast.<br /><br /><br />OHIO JOEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-67572611789781511342010-12-29T10:11:08.682-05:002010-12-29T10:11:08.682-05:00OJ, I think the behavior comparison between differ...OJ, I think the behavior comparison between different camps is always one sided and its truths lie on which side you are on. <br /><br />Palin detractors, on the right, use liberal tactics, from liberal sources and Junior High antics to try to bring down Palin. Palin supporters, for the most part, actually use candidate's positions as fuel. <br /><br />jerseyrepublican<br /><br />Romney supporters say Palin is dumb, Palin supporters say Romney has trouble with the base and MassCare will be a big hurdle for him in the primaries and the general, if he manages to win the nomination. I ask you this...which criticism is more thought provoking?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-81218751181861379222010-12-29T09:23:57.321-05:002010-12-29T09:23:57.321-05:00Well said Jersey, it is difficult to oppose Mrs. P...Well said Jersey, it is difficult to oppose Mrs. Palin on the issues, so often the Anti-Palinites try to falsely paint her as an intellectual light-weight to put it politely. However, they get offended if we say something half as bad about their candidates. Their comeback of course is 'but it is actually true that Sarah is a nutball.' Yeah it is true because they repeated enough times. We can repeat things as well.<br /><br /><br />OHIO JOEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-40514760999832792522010-12-28T23:48:53.122-05:002010-12-28T23:48:53.122-05:00Pablo, I won't address the hypocrisy of your p...Pablo, I won't address the hypocrisy of your post, or maybe I will, you call for civil discourse while calling Palin supporters blind followers...are you serious?<br /><br />If you actually took the time to honestly look at Palin's career you would see that she IS a center right politician. She has promoted smaller government her entire career. I honestly believe that you would admire Palin, as a person and a politician, if you stopped getting your marching orders from Frum and his forum.<br /><br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-22364913843857113552010-12-28T23:40:32.818-05:002010-12-28T23:40:32.818-05:00IG, with all due respect, Romney just isn't en...IG, with all due respect, Romney just isn't enough for some people in our party. It doesn't make them wrong or you right or your wrong and them right...it just is what it is. I am a proud Palin supporter and all of the things you see in Romney I see in Palin. Am I right...for me I am and I must assume that you're right for you. BUT, I do think it is a bit disingenuous of you to plead for more respectful discussions in one of your first sentences and then criticize OJ for not agreeing with you about Romney. IMO.<br /><br />jerseyrepublicanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3571954475140446599.post-86286237738747752962010-12-28T09:12:54.235-05:002010-12-28T09:12:54.235-05:00We just see most of your last paragraph quite diff...We just see most of your last paragraph quite differently. Brown is way to left of the tolerable Republican, even in Massachusetts. Unfortunately, it really does seem that he is as far right as can be elected in Masachusetts at this time. Hopefully, that will change over time.<br /><br />The rest of your paragraph I just see very differently. I can't say anything that would change your mind. Perhaps reading his book would help considerably. Many times a persons true character can come across as one peruses a few hundred pages written by their hand and produced by their mind. As you know I trust Mitt Romney to do the very same things you wish you could trust him on more than any other candidate. Not only do I trust him, but I see in him a greater work ethic than any candidate ever. He works like crazy 24/7, taking appropriate time off for worship and prayers, and some off for family, of course. In my mind, nobody is out there with the ability, intelligence, and drive to bring across much needed change. It would only take you a week or two to read his book. I pray you will and get to know this man much better. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.illinoisguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12400519403335350945noreply@blogger.com